Breath of fresh air!!!!!

ISOCYANATES.

Does that word make the hair on the back of your neck stand up? Or what?

Well, My project has taken a couple unexpected turns as of late. Just to fill you all in.

After stripping my boat of almost all deck hardware, teak trim, removable bulkheads and pretty much just about everything that could be removed.
No windshield, no bow rail, no coming bolsters, rod holders etc etc... You get the idea.

I towed the boat to a friends auto body shop to prep and paint. before starting I called awlgrip and got and endorsement of my product selection. then the fun started.

I put about 120 hours of prep work into her grinding, filling, fairing and wiping.
But before I could apply the high build primer ( step # 1 ) to the most repaired areas, I was told that the shop couldn't handle the project any longer. So I towed her home.

After stewing for a weekend I pursued some professional help, to complete the refinishing project. Without getting into details I was floored at the estimates. At such a cost, I could almost buy a replacement boat.

Anyway, I don't in any way begrudge a shop a living. But at my stage in life couldn't justify the expense.

The present:
Now I am collecting the tools and equipment needed to spray the boat myself. New compressor, DA, a ton of sand paper, long boards. spray guns pressure pots, 4 /24" drum fans ( 7800 cfm each ), and enough lumber to build a tempo spray booth.

But now when considering the safety gear, I find that the fresh air supply systems are quite pricey. And while resourcing the potential hazards. I came across some info form NI OSHA that basically states that some respirators can stop the dreaded isocyanates, but may rendered ineffective by solvents attacking the filter there by allowing isocyanates passage through.

The problem with endorsing the use of these filters, is that since the isocyanates have no odor, and the applications differ so, That no set exposure can be deemed safe.

Soooooooo I was thinking that if I changed my filters every 30 Min's or so.
( a lot quicker than the solvents can ruin the filters usefulness ) That not only would I protect myself, but I might save a few bucks in the process ( $750. )

Now I know that I should have a lot of other safety measures, I plan on at least having the 3m 7800 series half mask w/the 6006 series filters than a tyvec full hood, a tyvec suit, rubber gloves w/ the sleeves taped to the gloves and the pant legs taped at the ankles.


Well sorry for the run on post. But lives are at stake.

Thanks for reading

Grady

 

I painted cars for 18 years and the 3M mask is all I ever used,and you can use it for up to a month.You can't smell isocinates but you will feel them in the morning.The paint manufacturers make this out to be much worse than it is.

 

Thanks Jeff,

I'm just looking for real practical experience like yours, To base an intelligent decision on.

Any other thoughts on the subject.


Grady

 

I've heard from many people, including paint manufacturers (and I agree from personal experience) that without professional equipment and technique, spraying is generally not the best way to go.
There are several roller/brush techniques that, done with appropriate care, produce a finish that is as smooth and shiny as a sprayed coat. Takes somewhat longer, but the technique is easier to learn and you don't have nearly the same airborne toxins risk, nor the equipment costs.
Since it sounds like you may have already invested in a bunch of spray gear, you may have already made up your mind. But for a one-off, it does tend to be more economical to apply with roller or brush and tip-off with a fine brush, rather than attempt to spray.

 

Ever think of renting some SCBA equipment...Not Scuba but close.

 

I prepped and painted cars for up to 5 years without any mask at all. When I finally ended up with a fresh air system it took a while to get used to (and was never really comfortable). At any rate, so far 15+ years later I haven't had any side effects that I know of. Spraying with a fresh air mask wakes you up very well, without it you tend to enjoy yourself more.

The consideration you put into being safe is above and beyond anyone I had previously met in the car and boat industry but it's not like many of us were all that sane.

Regarding the discussion on spraying versus rolling, I would highly recommend spraying. It is much easier to do. You can practice on smaller parts and take it slowly, there is a learning curve in both techniques. Considering you're not afraid to strip her down to nothing, if something happens that you don't like, just start again.

I would suggest some type of heating system in your set up. Helps with the flow and for drying nice.

My biggest concern would be local environmental laws. I would spend more time considering that than personal safety. I'm speculating the laws are much harsher against environmental damage than say personal damage.

 

Isocinates are dangerous, don't underestimate the damage they can do. I know of people that can't go back into a paint booth because of overexposure to isocinates; in one case, the guy had finished the spray job, and went in to de-mask after the spray had cleared, with out wearing gear and the short term exposure to the fumes put him out of a careerer. I've always used the double cartridge Binks mask, and changed cartridges after every spray job. Also used Crisco around the seal to get a really good seal to the face. (this is somewhat problematic in hot weather) . As you have noted, NIOSHA's recommendation is a fresh air supply.

 

Thanks Guys, Very interesting. There are so many different view points.

But I did already make the commitment and purchased all of the equipment. And after careful consideration, I have decided that spraying was the method for me.

I do tend to over think things, but in this instance My safety and the quality of my life after this project is quite important to me.

I'm really absorbing the wealth of information that is available from the people that have been doing this stuff first hand for years and have learn from trial and error.

Thanks again and keep it coming.

Grady

 

Isocyanates

I sprayed two pack linear polyurethane for years, wonderful products and the results are quite stunning.

and it has not has not had any any effect, I say it has no er, um, had any, I think any effect on me at all.......

back to my mediciene

 

I always remember one of the painters at the garage I was an apprentice at years ago. I can see his face now red and blotchy, he used very little in masks. He had Asma and died of cancer ---well way before he should.

He would come out of the booth with his nose hairs the colour of the car!!

I think its ridiculous to say that "I did this and I sprayed that and I got away with it". Like crossing the road blindfolded --sure you could do it.

Novices coming here for real information with perhaps insufficient funds should be told properly. Theres some paints that are nasty --cyanide based, get the best protection you can afford and always listen to the manufactures that don't sell masks anyway.

I painted the forward anchor holds of my cat with 2 pack urethane. In ten minutes I had to get out, my nose was sore and I was almost losing conciousnes. I had a headache from hell and I was using a roller.

 

Grady: the awlgrip people specify that you need a fresh-air supply to spray the product, and it should not be used by non-professionals. Seems like fair warning. System-3 makes a linear polyurethane paint that can be sprayed with the usual respirators and filters.

 

Brentwood; thanks for the response. But I fully believe that that " for pro's only" is just part and parcel disclaimers to Ward off liability, along with needing a fresh air system. Now I have no doubts that fresh air is by far a better, more completely protected method. I question whether the isocyanates can be mitigated by the use of conventional respirators, for the short term user. The failsafe seems to be frequent replacement of the filtering element.


Grady

 

Here is some info that might give some credibility to this argument.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/mdi/mdi.html

Grady

 

For those that are using masks, I should add that I always use the pre-filter along with the cartridge. The article posted by Grady states the cartridges are significantly more effective with the use of the pre-filters. For instance the R51 with the snap on pre-filter, or the R51HE. The HE model has the heppa filter already attached. If you are working indoors, there should be an exhaust fan capable of pulling 100 ln ft of air per minuet past your face. You can multiply that by the cross sectional area (in square ft) perpendicular to the air flow of your booth (or shop) to get the require cubic ft per minuet that the fan must be capable of exhausting. At 16.00 dollars for a pair of cartridges,You may find that by the end of a single boat project, the fresh air system has payed for itself.

 

MORNING Gents anyone other than Tom, have a chance to check out the link.

Any thoughts.


Grady