Bowsprit on a Snark Mayflower

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mihari, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. mihari
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    mihari Junior Member

    Hi all!!!
    It has been a really long time since I have posted anything here. It is good to see all of you here!

    Well, I have a dilemma on whether I should (at all) put a bowsprit on my mayflower, and whether I should build in or not.

    Here is the story:
    Back in 2008 I was presented with a mayflower. It had everything: mast, sails (great condition), spars, tiller, dagger board, rain cover, even a 2hp engine. I was the happiest guy. Th problem was that the outer skin had some holes and that it had started cracking. Also it seemed to be detached from the inner (Styrofoam) core, so it was lumpy at places and it didn't work as a sandwich construction (as it was meant to).
    I decided to replace the outer skin with glass and epoxy. Even though it looked great, it didn't really go that well. :( I used chopped strand mat, which i later found out that doesn't work with epoxy. I added a wooden rail to cover the join of inner and outer skin and changed the plank/bench in the middle with thick birch plywood, which added a lot of weight. The problem was that after it was in the water for a few hours, water would sip through the skin, at least doubling its weight.
    Then I stored it in a warehouse in a farm for a couple of years. The mice loved it. They went though the dagger board pocket and excavated tunnels in the Styrofoam core, while opening a few holes, here and there for ventilation. Even the plastic paddles of the oars were missing pieces. It was a sad, sad sight. So I left it there for a couple of more years. Until a couple of months ago, when the owner of the warehouse took it out because he needed the space.
    I took it to the roof top of my apt building where I will measure, disassemble and rebuild (out of plywood). I expect it to be a lot lighter, stronger and drier. As the kids are growing I expect it to be a great toy. :D

    When I was sailing it I always felt that the sail was a bit large for its size, yet the jib too small to make a big difference. So, I thought, since I will rebuild the hull from scratch, I would add a bowsprit to accommodate an asymmetrical spinnaker/gennaker.

    The questions are these:
    1. Does anyone think that I should really refrain from adding a bowsprit? :confused:
    2. Should I make it retractable (through hull) or have a socket that it would plug in before hitting the water and removed after getting out?

    Here are some pics of it before and after its new skin:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You could make the jib attachment adjustable to make balancing the boat easier. Put a track on the bowsprit for the tack, or like on old boats, simply a sliding ring with a control line.
     
  3. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Google "balanced jib" for a way to get around the whole problem of a bowsprit on a Snark. The trouble with that idea is you want the bowsprit to break before the hull does, and that is hard to do on a Snark. What you had, by the way, is a Wildflower, bigger than the normal Snark.
     
  4. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    Hi all,
    Thanks for dropping by and your replies!

    Gonzo, I don't understand what you are proposing. Could you point me to a direction (a site, a picture, anything)?

    philSweet, is the balanced rig what is shown in the pictures below? If so, I see the complication of construction, without being able to distinguish the advantages over a bowsprit. The fact that you control both head sails with one sheet (do you?) is obviously an advantage but trimming separately seems complicated.

    Making a bowsprit brake sooner than the hull is only a matter of calculating the right material (no?). Keep in mind that the new hull will be plywood, so I think it will be a bit sturdier than the "corelite" that it originally had.

    I was planning to go and copy the old hull today but it is raining heavily, so that has to be postponed...:(

    (pictures from http://www.garryhoyt.com/id38.html)
     

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  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Something like this
     

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  6. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    Thank you Gonzo! It seems a bit complicated for my rigging. Anyway, I am pretty well set on having a 3rd sail...

    And, you are right about the name. It is a Widlflower. They share the same hull, but sails are different, and I expect the rest of the gear is also a bit different. They have a different weight of 5 kg (Wildflower 82, Mayflower 77). I found this info here (my German is horrible).
     
  7. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    Went this morning to see how I would copy the measurements, and I haven't found a satisfying solution yet.

    I am suspecting I will have to place it extremely level, and then take heights with a laser... Any ideas?

    Here is what it looks like now:
     

    Attached Files:

  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Just take a few points and re-draw it. Those panels should develop their shape naturally. Trace the side panels and ends with plywood or stiff cardboard.
     
  9. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    That did cross my mind, only it would be too easy!!! I was hoping to make an accurate 3d model of it, so I can see what it will become :)
     
  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    You already have a 3D model. The next will be a copy of it.
     
  11. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    moving...?

    should I move this thread to the "sail boats" forum, so it would be more relative to the subject?
    If so, how would I do that?
     
  12. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    I went ahead and "surveyed" the hull on Sunday, with the help of a laser level. After I leveled the hull, I took measurements of its difference to the horizontal plane in a 20cm step along the two chines, center line and along a line offset off CL (to measure mostly the curvature of the protrusion of the stern). It seems like the stern is a double curvature panel, and it will be hard to stitch and glue. I will probably have to make the stern shallower.
     

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  13. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    mice

    Also, here are some pictures of what mice can do to a boat. Look for the holes in the hull and the missing corners of the plywood...:mad:
    There used to be a pair white rubber "wipes" where the dagger board fit, to prevent water from coming up the dagger board case. Remains of it can still be seen...
     

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  14. mihari
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    mihari Junior Member

    This is what I was thinking...

    This is an idea of what I was thinking... I was playing around with the SailCut cad program and... it doesn't turn out too bad :D

    Image of now and after the addition of bowsprit and aspi.
     

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  15. mihari
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    mihari Junior Member

    This is what I was hoping for...

    This is kinda what I had in mind, but I don't really know how to dimension this. For the time being I am drawing what pleases the eye. I don't know how far forward the bowsprit has to extend or what kind of material I want it to be made of (I am thinking alu for simplicity and cost, but what about diameter, wall thickness, etc):confused:
     

    Attached Files:

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