bouyancy certificate

Not if you seal it. I have a client that seals PS and you can glass over it or throw petrol on it.

Contact Brian at AMT 011 392 4232 wrt their 2 part foam. they were here, I got samples and mixed some of it myself and if I'm not mistaken they cannot issue a certificate for it for booyancy. As I said, if you seal the foam it will keep water out.

This foam has another problem you may not be aware of. If it breaks and a piece is loose, then movement and vibration scarfs itself and the rest of the inetrior away ie it becomes a powder. It is not a flexible foam. Rub two pieces together and see what happens. Hopefully you boat will never have a piece break loose. Look here www.amtcomposites.co.za

I also won't go into a pissing contest with you, you use in your boats what you want. All I can say to you is that over the last ten years I have spent a lot of time experimenting with various foams, and the Sondor closed cell foams is the only foam I will use in my boats. I can also tell you some of the installers here use Sondor's foam, others use the mix foam.

I never said anywhere the pour foam won't stick to a boat ??? I does stick very well. Sondor's foam, which you can only buy in sheets or blocks have to be glassed to keep them in their position.

Can you please foreward those notices to my e-mail adress ? It is then in contrast to the content '21 of 2009 New Compulsory standards for Lifejackets used on South African Vessels' - unless I have a complete misunderstanding of this whole saga. I was under the impression the marine notices is the LAW...

Aparently there is a difference between a life jacket and a PDF as well.

I asked a laywer last night specifically about the use of life jackets and en light of the requirements. He said to me you may only use another life jacket as long as the one required by law is not available, the moment they do become available you can throw the old one in the dust bin.

I have also phoned (and e-mailed) SAMSA RB and asked about the life jacket, they TOLD me I can use the one I have, but they won't put anything in WRITING.

Wynand, I'm sure your work is professional, I have no doubt. That unfortunately cannot be said about all installers. I saw someone else's booyancy done by an installer and it was pathetic.

 

Well well, now that you've won the pissing contest can we agree on something

 

Fanie, Im off to Boksburg tomorrow morning early (see my previous post and tell me what you think of it) and when Im back, I will forward the new lifejacket rules from BIASA to you. For different category's you have different jackets that is nominated in KN or if divided by 9.8, will give you an approx kg flotation rating of the life jacket.
You are correct, PDF's differ from life jackets mainly in the sense that it does not keep your head above water as a proper life jacket does. PDF's are accepted in Category R boats and if memory serves me right, also for category E, but I stand to be corrected.

Stuur more die notas.

 

Take the weight of your boat with everything fully loaded including your butt in it. The booyancy should match that in volume (take into consideration the foam's weight also) and your boat will just barely stay afloat. Any extra volume foam you add is what will give you positive booyancy.

My boat weighs about 800kg empty. I have 2 cu meters of foam in it. That is 100% booyancy. Sometimes one load more stuff in it than other times, I would hate to sit and weigh every time I go out.

 

Good luck... but from experience I can tell you SAMSA listens to no one...

 

Not quite Fanie - I will email you the proper formulas and SG's to work with. Remember, assumption is the mother of all fuckups...

Im of to bed now with my Clive Custler book - he is more interesting than you and buoyancy

Praat more weer my pel.

 

Ok, here's what I think. I'm 52, it's going to cost me thumb suck around R300 000 to build and complete my boat and take me about 3 years to do so.

Lets say I'm up and about to around 65, that gives me say 10 years in which to catch all the fish there is.

Now, with all the crap going on here getting the boat built, the authorities that is not accomodating, laws being changed all the time etc etc etc, why don't I just take MY figgin money and I can have a nice holiday elsewhere every year.

300 000 plus what I would have spent on going on a holiday here is more than R 30 000 plus a holiday expense that I can blow on a holiday elsewhere, where you are not friggin victimised by shitheads, I can holiday between intelligent people, I don't have to join any clubs, my stuff won't get stolen, I don't have to do all these required courses, You don't have to get 'inspected' by someone with no experience.

Just thinking about it, I haven't had a decent time away in YEARS

 

Sounds like a plan..................

 

Strokes for folks, ultimately you will have to decide what you personally prefer and can or cannot live with.

I have experimented with the same foam Fanie is talking about and it has the following draw backs

heavy

very expensive ( top quality product )

comes in sheets or blocks (big and small - usually 2.4 x 1.2)

I got sheets of 100 mm - 80 mm and 20 mm thick
now the problem is that you basically have to cut it up and glue and stuff it into your cavity, the different glues have their own problems and sinificantly add even more wieght to an already heavy product. Stuffing and glueing pieces big and small into a cavity also leaves more cavities, so your chamber that you want to use as an "floatation chamber" has a lot of air cavities within as well. These empty cavities could be reduced if this foam was installed during the construction fase, but you end up with a lot off very expensive offcuts.

The point that a 2 part mixed PU foam gets heavy after some years, as it may absorb water, is also problematic. If you have poured the foam into a decent and clean cavity with and escape hole on the opposite side where the foam can bubble out as it expands and then afterwards seal it of well and then paint - you may never have problems

I have personaly worked on a 36 ft Beneteau that is approx 40 years old and at some stage foam was poured into some cavities - BONE DRY

the point is a well maintained boat will never have PU foam go heavy from water absorption

the "speed" boat lying in a backyard in the rain gets heavier after every rainy season.

So to say the one product is better than the other, is wrong. Every product has it ideal application and if used and maintained correctly will give the life expected. I have seen PU foam that is many years old and in 100% excellent condition, and considering that those "old formulations" were not as good as todays, the new stuff is much better.

My conclusion after carefull experimentation

PU is light - cheap - easy to work with

 

Manie,

SPX33 weigh 33kg/cu meter. It is not the weight that is the draw back, it is that you cannot use it in sheet form as a former because it flexes, you have to glass it both sides to make it structural.

 

morning all

wow! did not realise it was such a complex issue. here i thought i could just
put a couple of 2 litre bottles or some of those pool noodles in there. Could
your fuel and water tanks be classed as bouyancy for the boat ?

cheers
colin

 

Fuel is lighter than water so that would be some benefit , but not a lot.

Example for 100 liters :

Diesel : 192.8 lb ( 87.5 kg )

Petrol : 161.1 lb ( 73.1 kg )

Water : 220.1 lb ( 99.8 kg )

You would need BIG tanks if you carried them full .

Water tanks of course would only give you buoyancy if you can pump them out ( quickly ).

 

Colin, fuel (and tanks) does assist in floating a boat, but I would suggest you do not calculate that in. Provide enough and decent flotation. When the time comes it will be a comforting thought. Even an aeroplane can make an emergency landing, but on water you have no where to go other than stay on the boat. In an emergency about the worst thing you can do is to abandon boat

 

One area where the closed cell foam that Fanie refers to excells is in padding. Gymnasts generally use it for excersise mats. I will be using it in my boat as flooring and around areas where i could bump my head. It is by far the best waterproof added floatation rubber lining / padding around. It is nice to crawl on and has the added advantage of insulation. 20mm thick does the job and the blue looks ok. I will be using it in my forward cabin where i will crawl in and out. My forward double berth area will only be used as storage.

 

Fanie, I have some good news for you. Had my meeting with the BIASA headman and he had samples of all buoyancy materials that were presented to SAMSA on the last technical meeting.
He had two samples of Sadors SRX33 - in a nice blue - and the guy that actually make this stuff, came to meet me and explained how it is made and the composition of it. This foam can actually be cut in strips as you like, or in sheets as the ones you showed me sometime ago. The piece given to me is actually turned on a lathe (see photo).

The good news is that SAMSA is quite impressed and this is also now acceptable. However, this stuff is apparently fuel, oil waterproof and I think of changing to this. The price per meter cube is about 20% more than RX121 PU foam.