BOTTOM PAINTS - Wearlon and other new paints

Discussion in 'Materials' started by naturewaterboy, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. naturewaterboy
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 211
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: key largo, florida, usa

    naturewaterboy Steel Drum Tuner

    Does anyone have experience with Wearlon, a paint that the manufacturer states is a silicone/epoxy paint that is good for boat bottoms? They make no claims on their website for how long the stuff will last on a boat bottom.

    I am getting ready to paint my 34' powerboat. It will be living in my saltwater lagoon is South Florida, where we have lots of stuff that grows on hulls. I'd like to have the least toxic paint possible. I will be using the boat regularly, and I don't mind "wiping" (not scrubbing) the bottom occasionally to keep it clean. I'm pretty skeptical of anything that sounds too good to be true. Is this stuff snake oil? Are their any other bottom paints around that are silicone/epoxy?
     
  2. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    Wearlon paint

    Not really sure ablut that brand, but I am sure that the Teflon type of antifoulings have caused many a boatyard lots of financial problems.

    As the makers of these teflon type paints claim, nothing sticks to it, yep, and it sticks to nothing just the same. So be prepared to have it removed when it fails to wrks of starts falling off in time as the binders break down in the sea environment.

    One product that does work well, but you really do have to wipe it down, is copper impregnated expoy resins. They are sold by many companies, and I am sure you could mix a brew yourself. They do work because you are cleaning off (use a Doodle Bug - 3M type cleaner) not only the slime build off , but exposing a new surface for protection as well every time you give the baot a lick and a promise.

    I work in China, here there are many sellers of non ferrous products, they cut them up with disc cutt off saws, the piles of copper and brass dust get my attention every time I walk by. Try the same link at home, the local copper seller probably has a pile of "dust" that could be used just the same.
    ( my apologies to Bruce in Brisbane {BoatCote} for corrupting your product sales, he sells epoxy/copper paints to the trade and also retail, they are good products)
     
  3. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    This copper stuff actually arrives as a paint--and a copper addative. I have done some investigative work on this as the present situation of bottom paints is confusing as we pass through a time of unsatisfactory products.


    It would appear as landlubber says copper coat seems to work by literally scrubbing up a new surface of copper.
     
  4. nero
    Joined: Aug 2003
    Posts: 624
    Likes: 13, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 112
    Location: Marseille, France / Illinois, US

    nero Senior Member

    From the poking around I did earlier this summer, it would appear that it is copper/nickel or copper/zinc that is highly effective against marine growth. Finding copper/nickel powder has proven elusive so far.

    The only thing I have found is 6 mil foil. It was priced to me at $2500 for 40 sq m. Then there is the question of how to bond it to the hull.
     
  5. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    Forget the foil idea, we went through that in Sydney in the late 70's.
    Copper /zinc is of course brass. As I said above, there are non ferrous merchants that have "saw dust heaps" of the stuff. It is sold by them as weight for scrap only, so would, I expect, be a suitable additive. I reckon a kilo of the dust, put it in a bucket and wash out the dirt (cutting disc ) and it should be beaut.
    Copper oxide (black pigment) is what the paint companies use, so a handfull of that would have to be beneficial too.

    Do not go down the road of Tetracycline or Amoxycillian either. It is not good for the life cycle of fish or humans.
     
  6. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Amoxycilin?---thats broad based antibiotic for human consumption.

    As I mentioned before we are passing an era of poor product as the laws are banning stuff without the bottom paint companies having another product to sell.

    Consiquently in Malaysia/ Thailand we put in TBT ourselves. 3% is all you need as more makes the paint glutinous and rolls terrible. It also inhibits its ability to dry.

    I believe some one actually asked Jotun what would be the result of this additional additive. Apparantly they replied that it is not possible to just add stuff it has to be part of the "cooking "process and all that you are doing is making a very poisoned paint -for a while.

    Having added TBT over the last 3 haullings I have come to the conclusion it does little if any thing. What it does do is make you feel very very ill when you dive in and scrub it. I kid you not, I wont be doing that again.

    After saying that, the fish are proliferous in the marina and the locals eat the mussels from the docks , I have heard of no consiquences.
     
  7. naturewaterboy
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 211
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: key largo, florida, usa

    naturewaterboy Steel Drum Tuner

    TBT must be pretty toxic stuff, I would assume, since it has been banned around the world. I really do not know what is wrong with it, but I do not want to use it on my boat.

    I did read something about a paint that reacts with sunlight to produce peroxide, which keeps everything from growing on it. Peroxide breaks down into oxygen, so it does not contribute to toxic sludge in our waters.
     
  8. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    TBT Tri Butyl Tin, was banned because of the damage it does primarily to molluscs (shells). They become very deformed and die.
    So, if you happened to own an oyster farm, you would get tiny little oysters (or dead ones).
    Frosty, the mussels in your area are most likely protected by flow of water, diluting the TBT discharge from the paint to % that doe snot affect them, at my own marina in Sydney Harbour when I ran it, I killed every living oyster, barnicle and mussle that had been there for years before I ran the show. We used to have oyster shells on the concrete slipway ramp when I started there, there were none to be seen after 4 years of intensive use of TBT based antifoulings. The best ever paint in those days was International Micron 33 and Altex Devoe ABC3, but they did contain then TBT. Today it is difficult to get anything that works as far as I know.
    International had a Micron paint then too that was clear, like a varnish. Used around the waterline it was great. I used to make a shandy of it and the normal Micron 33 and it could then be used to paint a boat. My test boat for 18 months was bare of any growth and had only a very thin layer of slime that would dissapear in hours when the boat was used. Shame we cannot do that today in many ways.
     
  9. naturewaterboy
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 211
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: key largo, florida, usa

    naturewaterboy Steel Drum Tuner

    I was just at the Ft. Lauderdale boat show, and I picked up some literature from Petit on copper and tin free bottom paint. Their's uses a peroxide releasing chemical that is activated by sunlight, same as Epaint. They admit that it doesn't last as long as copper paints.
     
  10. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    So why bother. It is basically useless, but they have to have something to sell while the chemists are frantically working out ways to antifoul, and still meet all the laws and regulations inposed upon them by "those that know".
     
  11. the1much
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 3,897
    Likes: 44, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 696
    Location: maine

    the1much hippie dreams

    their biggest problem is making a bottom paint that lasts over a year.1 of the big reasons bottom paints work is because they come off quickly,and the metal in them, but as regulations get stiffer they've found that if they make the paint wear off easier, the algae cant "stick" to the bottom, becuase its basically like trying to hold onto dust on the ceiling. it grabs the "dust" hang onto that,, then fall because the "dust" wouldnt stick to your boat. bottom paint "wearing" fast also helps ya speed or gives you a lower rpm at same speed
     
  12. Go Green
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: USA

    Go Green New Member

    Eco-Friendly Epoxy-Silicone Boat Bottom Coatings

    New waterborne technology for epoxy-silicone bottom coatings is available from Ecological Coatings. As an epoxy the coatings are durable and last multiple seasons if properly applied to a barrier coat or immersion primer. These coatings are slick and have excellent non-stick as well as excellent hydrophobic properties. Since these coatings are non-toxic, they rely on water flow over the surface to be self cleaning. Therefore this type of coating is recommended for a boat that is frequently used. Other benefits include increased speed and/or reduced fuel consumption due to reduced drag.http://www.ecologicalcoatings.com
     
  13. naturewaterboy
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 211
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: key largo, florida, usa

    naturewaterboy Steel Drum Tuner

    Silicone epoxy - how long has this paint been on the market? What do boatyards say about it - how easy is it to paint over - or does it have to be completely stripped to recoat? How long does it last in tropical, nutrient rich water - ie the Florida Keys?
     
  14. Kay9
    Joined: Oct 2006
    Posts: 589
    Likes: 26, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 279
    Location: Central Coast Oregon US.

    Kay9 1600T Master

    I call snake oil... 1 Post and he is trying to sell paint that will solve all your anti-fouling probs, plus it makes you go faster.. Bull Puckey!!!!!

    It also reduces fuel usage, is good for the enviroment, makes women more attractive, will have your mother in law like you, can be seen from space, and will stop Jihadist from blowing your boat up.

    K9
     

  15. Go Green
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: USA

    Go Green New Member

    Naturewaterboy ... Silicone-epoxy has been around for almost 20 years, but what is new is the waterborne technology and the ability to graft silicone to epoxy, not just blend the two together. When a silicone is blended with epoxy you get a silicone bloom to the surface of the coating when it dries and cures. It works great for a short time because of the silicone on the surface, but silicone is soft and in a short period of time will wear and then you are left with just the epoxy which bio-films will attach to. This coating has silicone through the matrix of the coating, so as it wears you still have the non-stick properties. This coating has been on the market for over ten years and has gone through some modifications. There are always new advancements in catalyst, cross-linkers and resins that can make a particular coating better for different reasons. Since the coating is non-stick, re-coating must be done by first lightly sanding the surface of the coating to open pores and then it must be washed with acetone, which will then dull the silicone on the surface. You can then re-coat with the same product. If you want to use a totally different coating at that time you should remove the top-coat down to primer or barrier coat before re-coating. Boat yards ... I will ask a question and then answer it. "If you are the owner of a boat yard, would you like to apply a bottom coating to all the boats every year, every two years, every five years?" The answer .. Every Year. Why? More money for application! When you have a coating that will last multiple seasons, unless the boat yard can get three or four times what it can for typical antifouling application, and it can't, it's not something they want to use. We have run into that problem over and over again. Boat owners want it ... boad yards are not so interested. By the way the coating cost is about 87 Cents per square foot, for a multi-season coating. If you break that down for say three years at 29 Cents a square foot, it's not a big money maker for a boat yard. You are probably paying a lot more than that for a single season, toxic, boat bottom coating! Like I mentioned in the previous post, this coating is not for every boat and that depends on how it is used. More about that in the paragraph below.

    Kay9 ... You should read carefully ... this product is not intended for all water craft or for all uses as stated. The coating has a low co-efficient of friction and its high cross-link density gives the coating a hard durable attribute, unlike many soft bottom coatings on the market. As stated, this coating is non-toxic so it doesn't rely on copper or other leaching substances to kill bio-films like the old antifouling coatings. While those coating work well for a limited time, they also are harmful to the environment. These coatings are non-toxic and rely on water flow over the surface to be self cleaning. If you have a boat that is docked for long periods of time and infrequently used, this is not a coating for you. The coating is not sold to solve all your problems as your childish post suggests. It's is a fantastic coating system for fishing boats, tug boats, ferries and water craft that are used frequently. Believe it or not, there are numerous amazing new products on the market to replace old, toxic products not only in the marine venue, but covering thousands of industrial and commercial applications. I realize there are a lot of products out there that just don't live up to their claims, but have an open mind ... so many advancements have been made with nano technology and for environmentally friendly products in the past few years to replace the nasty stuff out there that new and great technologies are popping up all the time, and coating are are one of them.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.