Books, boat, sails, questions, warning newbie!

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by aurrida, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. aurrida
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Germany

    aurrida New Member

    Hello everyone,

    Briefly, I am a brit living in Germany, northern Baveria.

    I consider myself a novice sailor that has completed RYA dinghy and yacht courses but I have little additional experience, though I have occasionally crewed for a friend and his Snipe 15.

    I am a competent woodworker.

    I am here because I would like to build a small STABLE sailing dinghy about 4-5 metres long.

    It will be sailed by two people one being 100 kilo on small inland lakes.

    Questions:

    1. I have seen the plans for the Goat Island Skiff, what do people think? Any other ideas would be welcome.

    2. I am concidering buying two books, Boat building for Beginners (and Beyond): Everything You Need to Know to Build a Sailboat, a Rowboat, a Motorboat, a Canoe, and More [With Plans] - Jim Michalak and Devlin's Boatbuilding: How to Build Any Boat the Stitch-and-Glue Way - Samual Devlin. Again any recommendations welcome.

    3. I have done a little homework into building the hull I know nothing about the sails, are they included in the boat plans and do I make them myself?

    4. I can buy a used dinghy for 2-3 thousand with a trailer. I know building my own will not necessarily be cheaper but how will it compare price wise.

    Well that's a start, thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: maine

    alan white Senior Member

    You can always get more boat if you buy used. The idea of building your own boat is about the satisfaction of the building experience and/or having exactly what you want. Not like building a house, which saves thousands.
    Fairly or unfairly, boats generally lose value more like cars than houses.
    There are thousands of designs out there, and full size patterns, and kits.
    You say you want a stable boat. What thaqt means to you now and what it means to an experienced sailor may be two different things, Stability in a small SAILING boat is not necessarliy an ability to walk around or load cargo.
    What it means is how that hull acts when heeled or when in rough water.
    For instance, a vee or round hull is not influenced as much by a slanted water surface as a flat-bottomed hull.
    This is similar if not the same as the criteria for designing a canoe's bottom profile. The canoes that are most stable to the most experienced are the ones that are stable when the gunwale is close to the water.
     
  3. aurrida
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Germany

    aurrida New Member

    Firstly, I accept it will cost more but there is value added filling of doing it yourself and when said it will be a new boat. Now, my concern is paying the same or more for a conciderably inferior boat.

    Regarding stability, at the moment it will need to be well behaved, predictable and I guess forgiving. Point taken about hull design but even so it means little to me when it comes to choosing between two designs.

    I would like some pointers to actual boats. As a beginner I just do not know how to tell what is a good design.
     
  4. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Read Alan's post a bit more carefully... you have to decide whether you want the boat to be stable when you get in it and a bronc when the water gets big or somewhat tippy when you get in but a more gentle ride when the water gets bigger. There are also in-betweens that range from one end to the other. From what I read of your desires...you are looking for the get in stability and don't plan on seeing much in the way of nasty water. A shallow Vee with a wider beam would suit this...in the 4.25-4.75 metre range. Those books that you are looking at are good to start...Jim's has one nice little sailer but it is flat bottomed. The other has good info about Stitch and Glue but no plans.

    This one would suit I think: https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=442

    Or the bigger sister: https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=443

    Clark Craft has this: http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local...0013&cart_id=5acab7dac6dd1646933286d4c4de7a04

    And this if you like to have a bit of a cabin: http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local...3514&cart_id=3a0b0c93ecf42a06ddf17f6c91ddbb9d

    The 14ft version looks nice...: http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local...9165&cart_id=42668b8e18a6e0f4f7820118822adec2

    and don't forget the Hartleys...in 12 and 16 ft versions...

    There are many others out there in the range you are looking for. Look for a cruising/day sailing style that has a wider beam and a bit of draft...nothing with trapezes or requiring hiking out.

    A flat bottom has only one real disadvantage...it pounds when going upwind and slaps at anchor sometimes. If you can get past this...they are open to you too.
     
  5. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: maine

    alan white Senior Member

    Yep, I owned a flat iron skiff once and boy was it noisy. Shallow vee is the way to go since you'll be sailing it nearly upright (smooth water won't require much deadrise in a dinghy).
    Just be aware that getting caught out in a boat with a flattish bottom isn't pleasant.
    Look at how dories, pea pods, and multi-chine boats are shaped amidships, and then look at a flat-bottomed skiff midsection for comparison. Not that the flattie or shallow vee is inferior. Rather, they are great planing boats under the right conditions, and they're very stable at rest. My own 15 footer won't plane but she'll handle big waves and stay dry and comfortable. Her bottom is rounded, which makes her sensitive to where you put your weight. That said, I'm not bass fishing so I prefer that kind of "final" stability over a dock-like feel.
    To each his own.
     
  6. aurrida
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Germany

    aurrida New Member

    Thanks for the guidance everyone. It helps seeing some examples and what different hull designs have on a boats performance.

    Lastly, I am still unsure about sails. Can I make them?
     
  7. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: maine

    alan white Senior Member

    You can make your own but I would always see if I could get a used sail in good condition as it would cost less. There are many used sail companies online.
     

  8. callsign222
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: New Hampshire

    callsign222 New Member

    aurrida:

    The Goat Island Skiff is a great boat. I've done a lot of research and finally settled on this one to build.

    A few resources for you, if you want more information or decide to start building.

    Michael Storer is the designer. His forum:

    http://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/

    His homepage:

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/wp/

    If you can't find information you are looking for, ask, and he will answer.

    The GIS is a lightweight, high performance design, somewhat easy and quick to build, and also stable-- especially with more than 1 person. It is flat-bottomed, but with its sharpie design, once on a slight heel, the chine acts as a shallow keel and minimizes slapping underway. (This is hearsay, I have yet to sail mine). No standing rigging,

    There are several people making their own sails out of different materials from the plans provided, from Dacron to Polytarp. I bought my own sail already made for the GIS from a sailmaker here in the States.

    There are also several GIS' in Europe-- Denmark, Netherlands, UK, etc. maybe you can find one in Germany if you ask Mr. Storer. One of them from NL placed very well at Raid Caledonia, across Scotland, using canals and the inland lochs. http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GIScaledonia.html

    I'm just popping in to give you some information about the GIS. Do your research and make sure you get the boat you want! As mentioned here already by others, if you just want a boat, you should buy one. If you want a special boat, and you want to build a boat, then you should build one. It's a matter of what is important to you. Good luck!
     
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