Boating mag April 2020 says ethanol-mix will wreck boat engines.

Discussion in 'Gas Engines' started by Squidly-Diddly, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    That is not correct. First nothing can be 110% mixed, unless you are an athlete giving an interview. Second, if the fuel is not mixed in the truck, it will deliver fuel with different percentages of alcohol to different stations. On the stations that have large tanks and can receive full trucks, there will be some mixing as they unload. However, many stations only get partial loads.
     
  2. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    really? has this ever cropped up as an issue? because I'd guess it would be a big stinking deal if any US gas stations were routinely selling gas out of spec, given all the regs involved in selling motor fuel to public, not to mention fatal damage to their big brand name.
    I worked at a few gas stations decades ago and never heard of partial load of gas, but they were all normal high volume stations. AFAIK, gas tankers even today don't have ability to meter out a load of fuel, beyond MAYBE a rough visual, but never seen one. I'd guess any partial load for small tanks is gonna be "partial" at the refinery, so will mix same when delivered and tanker dumps whole 1/2 load.

    Only thing I've ever heard of about "bad gas" from US gas station was during last gas price spike in 2008 when some station in NYC area was busted trying to add water. It was on national TV news.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I understand you have an opinion. However, you are basing it on AGFAIK, you working pumping gas decades ago, and some guesses. These links will give you some actual technical information about how the different mix methods work and their limitations. Also, there is a general background on how mixes are measured and the what the final percentages are.
    https://www.spectrosci.com/product/...yzer/?fileID=8a808189505a61330150a54a28a93c1f
    https://www.emerson.com/documents/a...ction-to-ethanol-blending-daniel-en-43886.pdf
    http://info.smithmeter.com/literature/docs/tp0a015.pdf
     
  4. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Nothing in 3 links speaks to this claim. "Second, if the fuel is not mixed in the truck, it will deliver fuel with different percentages of alcohol to different stations."

    Given there are real issues with E10 VS E15, to say nothing of alc% more than E15 which don't got blessing for selling to public as motor fuel, and how many people seem to care more about what goes into their cars (or boats) than what goes into their kids, ANY cases of out of spec mix being sold to public would be a really, really big deal, in 101 diff ways. Remember the FoMoCo VS Firestone? About 100x that just for starters as Every Car Maker VS Oil Company X. ECM (and owners of out of warranty cars) would all be claiming their car's problems are fault of Bad Gas. The EPA, and whoever pushed for E10 etc, and related State agencies, would all freak out. If you got anything that legit even hints at out of spec mix being sold to public, I'd like to be your agent and sell this explosive story to Motor Trend, etc or better CNN or Fox on primetime.

    Has there been a single known case of gas/alc mix sold to public that is more than 2% over the spec's limit on alc%?
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I guess this is turning like your post on floating bridges. Throwing random numbers around that come from your imagination. I am done with this.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Is it that easy to separate the ethanol out from the petrol ? That might make some people think......
     
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Yes it is. Just add water.
     
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  8. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Confirms what my experts at nearby refineries say. Your claim that any gas sold to public in USA is out of strict specs for alc% (and everything else that matters) is nonsense and just made up.

    While things might happen after its sold, you could bet your life that its perfect when sold to public.
     
  9. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    Cars do have flex fuel sensors in them for deal with random fuel mixes and sealed fuel systems.
    If you want to pressurize the fuel tank and piping in the boat you are standing in then ethanol wont be the issue that it now is in boats
     
  10. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    i switched to pressurized more sealed fuel system on my old 1970 egg harbor boat. So far it has not phase separated and the gas lasts a long time, because most of the time it is sealed. only when the pressure differential exceeds 1 psi, will the fuel cap valve open and it opens either way to let vapor out or draw air in. Cars use the same thing (cap is set to 2 psi) except also add a charcoal canister to capture fuel tank vapors, which i dont have. I keep only about 50 gallons in a tank of 200 gallon size, and have 2 tanks.

    for safety reasons, I have a fuel demand valve right at the tank outlet, means pressure in the tank can not pressurize the fuel line, which is a good thing!
    The tank vent feeds back to the fuel fill just like cars have done for decades. That large vent is only needed when the tank is being filled. The fuel tank caps valve vents or lets in air as fuel is drawn from the tank by the engine. I really like my fuel system and all made with Attwood and Perko modern fuel system parts. Much better to not vent the tank vent to the air whether passing thru a charcoal canister or not to the atmosphere.

    For my fuel pump i use one of those pulsation piston pumps and it is excellent, internally set to 3 psi, it can not vapor lock like those awful rotary vane carter pumps i used to use which overheat the fuel.
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Bananas

    I won't even run ethanol in my lawnmower. It is terrible for engines.
    Unfortunately I have to run it in my road vehicles.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  12. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I do the same with lawnmowers. Typically put water into the gas can, shake it and let it phase separate. The small engine always run good. What is left unused in the gas is water mixed with ethanol and it will dry out, you can just dump it in the sun.
     
  13. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    This lowers the effective octane rating. So make sure you only use it engines that can survive on the lower octane of the finished version.
     
  14. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Bananas

    The gas stations near me sell 90 octane ethanol free. No need to add water.
     

  15. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Ike Senior Member

    This may not apply anymore but in the mid 80's the Coast Guard collected fuel samples from about 15 stations in various New England states and measured the alcohol content. It ranged from 0 to 15%. That is probably not a large enough sample to make any valid statistical conclusions but it does show that the amount varies. Why? Different distributors mixing different amounts.
     
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