Boatdesigner/engineer looking for a job

Discussion in 'Services & Employment' started by sushkin, Aug 3, 2013.

  1. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    Design patent is the term used for utility objects. Copyright - for non-functional items. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent
     
  2. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    There in lies some of the confusion.

    Your link quotes US law, not Russian, as your patent is for Russia, nowhere else unless you have a worldwide patent. And that "design patent" in UK is ostensibly copyright.

    Thus a subtle difference in the definition of Patent..and Design Patent....and differs from country to country.

    But notwithstanding all of that....so what? Are you more interested in shape than function?
     
  3. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Each country has its specifics. I only show that this particular design is protected in Russia by design patent. The patent is covering shapes and essential features of the craft. Thus, the topic starter's water taxi for Sevastopol, Russia shown on picture might infringe the IP rights... Nothing else.
     
  4. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Indeed...thus I was confused by the ref/link to non-Russian laws.

    I can't see where it says it is for Sevastopol? Which is still currently Ukraine, not Russian, depending upon which side of the fence one is on...but that's another story!?

    I can't read your patent, i struggle enough with Japanese!! hahaha

    Can you explain in more detail what these shapes are and how they are defined?
     
  5. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Sevastopol is written on the rendering.

    Sevastopol is the part of Russian Federation since March 2014, someone like it or not :) Local provincial court would have clear opinion on that, and in Sevastopol nobody cares what the US and their puppets think of this... :D Here the case of patent infringement is under Russian civil law.

    The definition of protected shapes are in Annexes to the patent, there are drawings showing the views and exterior details of the craft.
     
  6. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    I assume those Annexes are in Russian?

    I'm curious how this works...since we have never bothered with copyright or patents in general. Although I do have my name on one...
     
  7. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    I do not bother as well, we hire patent lawyer offices in Russia, Thailand, etc. to do the paperwork. The reason behind is: we got our designs copied. Say, one design office in Russia was using the images from our proposal (to the third party) to get an order, and then once they got an order they engineered the boat looking very similar to ours... Sine then, patent protection is part of our agreement with some clients. Let's bring some respect to colleagues job.
     
  8. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    2AdHoc
    Just a sample for You on how they do it:
    http://www.pellaship.ru/pilot/gallery.html - do You recognize the design of the pilot boat? It is a dead copy of Camarc Design!

    OK, and here is their catalog http://www.pellaship.ru/pdf/pilot.pdf
    note photo on title page, boat is under US flag, You believe this was built by this shipyard?

    They not only copy the designs, but also use photo of another boat to advertise their products! This is why we make design patents, especially working is some parts of the World.
     
  9. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    That's the same the world over. can't stop it...thus one should focus on the technical merits of the design not the aesthetics. Once a boat is delivered...its fair game basically!

    I tend to focus on the technical and the build quality. I don't just work with anyone, as its my name on the boat too not just the yards...i rely on quality builds, since a successful vessel is a blend of good design and fabrication. Can't have one without the other.

    The best design in the world made by the worst fabricators...will fail. Similarly vice versa...thus it is all about the correct blend of quality from design and fabrication. The two must work in harmony.

    I care not what shape others copy from me, there is no technical merit not quality behind it. So it bothers me not.
     
  10. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes agree we cant stop it completely, but in some blatant cases it will. See the links above.

    And if one invests time in developing either nice shapes or technical solutions, it should be protected.
     
  11. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    This is actually not true. Imagine, the Client takes Your images and goes to 'cheaper designer'. Yes, we both know that the project is likely to fail due to different design/manufacturing quality, but at the beginning the Client does not know that. So, You did not get the commission (You lost!), and the Client lost as well. If You have the patent, You might get the compensation fees from the Client, so You do not loose :D of course, this is all lawyers' and might take time or never happen, but...
     
  12. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Disagree

    If i dealt with such a client then they get what they deserve...crap! Had this occur to me several times..some recently too. Doesn't bother me...if the client doesn't recognise quality...they get what the pay for. Simple :D
    But it was not the client per se, they were just persuaded by a 'lesser design and build quality'. My clients in general do not 'steal or copy' as such...only my competitors.

    Thus they lose :( , I win :D, I keep my reputation, that's more important than a fast buck..
     
  13. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Can be the competitor acting same way instead of 'Client'. Also, often the Client will be convinced by the competitor 'we can do it better' ... See the links I gave on Pella Ships.
     
  14. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    My understanding of utility patents and design patents under US law:

    Utility Patent, 20 years. Must be applied for and granted. Most boat designs and elements of boat designs don’t qualify for a utility patent because they don’t meet the required conditions. Validity of a patent is only established through litigation. After 20 years the contents of a utility patent are public domain.

    Design Patent, 14 years. Must be applied for and granted. Protects only the original aspects of the appearance and ornamentation of an object, not it’s functional aspects or construction. Validity of a patent is only established through litigation. After 14 years the contents of a design patent are public domain.

    If Russian law is similar and Alik has a design patent then the appearance of the boat is covered, not the functioning of the bow ramp, etc.
     

  15. sushkin
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    sushkin Junior Member

    Hello)
    Just came from the workshop and I see there is a lot happening here)
    I do not know if there is enough "space" to argue about appearance, because I didnot use Alik's dimensions or drawings, but if Alik says it's patented, then it won't look like this.
    Also I can tell like it happened, even if it doesn't matter much. The client's task was: 10-11m cat but with 12 passenger seats (because of Russian classification society) and wide passes for a wheelchair. The first version was with enclosed bow and 150mm side deck.
    [​IMG]
    Then I got a link from the client to a russian website where Alik's cat was. I was asked to make stairs like they were now. My arguments were - we almost have no sandy beaches to use them, and how could a wheelchair roll onto them? But the client was like - do not worry about that.
    I got my money and everybody was happy. But now I see - everything is not so simple)
     
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