Boatbuilding in cold climate

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Uldis, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Uldis
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: Riga, Latvia

    Uldis Junior Member

    I am thinking of starting the build of 40’ sailboat in autumn here on Baltic coast. Building mostly in autumn, winter, spring to keep me occupied during long winter evenings and weekends (looong, dark and cold). First step to build shed. Insulated and heated workshop essential (this year january averaged below -10). Build planned cold molded with resorcinol glue – heating even more important. I am thinking of building half of shed as permanent structure and other half as bow roof structure covered with 2-3 layers of bubblepack – sort of superinsulated greenhouse. That part would be converted to actual greenhouse after build finished.

    Need your suggestions on reasonable size of building shed – not too large (to keep costs and heating requirements low) but do not want regret that missing ½ meter later. Any suggestions and tips about construction/ layout/ heating/ ventilation/ equipment/ workshop organisation highly welcome.
     
  2. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    IS -15c cold enough with a metre of snow outside ?

    Hi
    I was in charge of the project in the winter in South Korea making 8 x 36 foot Fibreglass racing yachts , The tempratures were down at the minus -15c or -20c outside for quite some time but we managed to sort that with a little help from a very large heater .
    During the working day we had 20c as a temprature to get resin to harden and cure , at night we dropped down to 15c to save a little power but keep things warm , at odd times after a big lay up of resin and glass we would gradually wind the heat up to 30 c for 12 hours for a good cure . It was a 7 day a week job till all the glassing was finished as we made each boat and lifted it out of the mould into a cradle .
    Something hardly anyone takes into account is humidity ,concrete floors need to be painted well or a good thick plastic sheet over the top to completely seal the whole floor . Moisture gets sucked up through the concrete also concrete block walls .
    We suspended a large tent inside the building when the air was warmed to 20c it was like a hot air balloon and self supporting , we used 3 large fans on stands to circulate the air within the tent to stop getting hot areas and to blow the hot air from the highest point back down to floor level again .
    Its amazing that once everything gets warm how little added heat is needed to maintain a constant temprature .
    If you have a wooden structure to mold over then you need to maintain a constant temprature and constant humidity for stability of all the wood or you get movment and cracking and rippling etc etc . Its also a good idea to resin coat all and any wood all sides as this also helps with stability of exspansion and contraction .
    Alot of careful planing and hard thinking is needed to make all this work and not let the heating bill go through the roof and end up costing a fortune .:D :p
     
  3. capt littlelegs
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: England

    capt littlelegs New Member

    What fuel do you have available for heating? You do also need to consider fire safety in a workshop where there are lots of flammable materials about. Nothing worse than building your boat then seeing it go up in flames, happens too often!
     
  4. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    The whole project needs thought ! The more space, the more cubic metres of air you have to heat the tent or cover is best to have a high point where the heat will collect !! You need to be able to draw that hot air back down to the bottom again . If you are building in wood be very awear of the moisture content of your wood , best to keep it within the tent filleted so the air can get around it for a long while before you start .
    Check also the glue you intend to use and see what the lowest temprature they recomend it to be used at . Need to keep a eye on the humidity levels each day and see if they stay constant .Slows the wood from shrinking to much and then exspanding again later on . :D
     
  5. Uldis
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: Riga, Latvia

    Uldis Junior Member

    IS -15c cold enough with a metre of snow outside ?
    That's about right!

    My preliminary calculations for 90m2 wood framed insulated workhop are from around 10'K USD (not including heating, ventilation). I spent quite some time researching cheaper construction/insulation ideas, but best i could come up was temp wood frame covered with bubblepack (not very cheap either).

    Suspending tent within shed during cold season worth to consider

    Where i live groundwater is 0.5-1.5m below surface (depending on season), no compromises here!

    That's one i had missed :)

    Heating options - electricity, LPG and diesel, wood. I heat my home with ground loop heat pump (one of my largest diy projects todate). Electricity, LPG and diesel - very expensive to run. Heat pump - expensive to install. Leaves me with wood. I was thinking of good massive wood stove + ventilators.
     
  6. Uldis
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: Riga, Latvia

    Uldis Junior Member

    Thats my top question now - how much space i need to build 12 x 3.5 m wood boat?
     
  7. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    14 x 7 m.. or 18 x 6 m.. my 2 c

    ps. double that to be comfortable..
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    A minimum of 2m working room on either side of the hull and at least 3-5 meter at bow and stern!

    Our experience.

    And rethink your glue choice!!! Resorcinol needs heat and pressure under very limited and controlled conditions. A novice commonly cannot build in resorcinol!!!
    Use epoxy instead and postcure properly.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. Uldis
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    Location: Riga, Latvia

    Uldis Junior Member

    2 meters on hull sides not problem, but 3-5 meters at bow and stern :( :?: my shed will be longer than my house and out of budget. Never going to work.

    May be i build large doors at shed ends (like aircraft hangar doors) and open when needed for something this long???

    I know that resorcinol is outside of mainstream and has its difficulties, but i have reasons to prefer it.

    First i have a week spot for choosing the sctructurally most sound solutions. I may skimp on finishing and fitout, but not on basic structure (i built my home this way and never regret it). After reading much on subject i understand epoxy has problems with heat deflection and long term creep and durability. Not with resorcinol.

    Second reason for choosing resorcinol is my choice of locally available building timbers - oak, siberian larch, baltic redwood (open to suggestions here too) which may have gluing problems with epoxy because of tannins and resins in wood.

    Then epoxy is irritant and allergenic . I know resorcinol glues contain formaldehyde which is not harmless either, but industry has come long way to reduce formaldehyde emissions.

    And for the last i do not like icky-sticky stuff the epoxy is and how it sticks to everything and cleaning, etc...

    After long search i found there is Dynea Prefere resorcinol glue that has much lower working temps. I plan to build a test section or two to test the methods and learn how to work with it (splining, gluing, vacuuming). If it does not work out, i may rethink the glue choice
     

  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    It has nothing to do with mainstream when I recommend EP for a homebuilt. Just experience. And I build commercially in wood epoxy and glass VE.

    Regards
    Richard
     
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