boat vibration ?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by hyboats, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: The Netherlands

    Herman Senior Member

    And the prop? Looks like this?

    [​IMG]

    Without actually being on the boat it is extremely hard to pinpoint to a cause. We can merely build a list of possible causes.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 476, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Gonzo is correct, customers, even experienced ones often can't provide sufficient information, so some extrapolation is necessary. The obvious course is to take the boat for a ride with a technician and hunt around, and pin down what noises and/or vibrations it has. Most of this sort of thing is easy to sort out and quickly identified, though some "in the wet" time is usually necessary, unless you have a prop that looks like above. As to Frosty's comments, well, his worth has been proven (repeatedly) in threads here and having that type of personality handle customers, would be a death nail for any business, pretty quickly.

    Some folks like to think "the customer is always right", but the wise businessman never adopts this attitude, though will try to please the customer. The reason you don't adopt the customer is right attitude is very simple, if they where right, why are they seeking professional help? I'm of the opinion that they are rarely right, usually confused and often misguided by speculation and BS from well meaning, yet equally uninformed friends and general rumor or wife's tails. They've come to not have their ideas and opinions confirmed, but to have it fixed right. The wise businessman pats them on the head and says, "we'll find the problem" and then goes about a standardized set of diagnostic routines, based on experience and perceived symptoms, not what the customer thinks it might be.

    A car came into my yard last week, with a friend that just knew he needed a tune up. He said it had been sitting for about a month and the engine light was on, so he knew it needed one, even having brought plugs for it to be installed. While he stood by telling me all this, I pulled a plug which showed a slight amount of wear, but other wise was fine. I responded, that he might be right, but I'd read the codes and fix his problems. He left and I pulled the codes, which showed it had nothing to do with the engine internally, but was a malfunctioning power steering pressure switch. I pulled the switch, cleaned the orifices in it's end, reinstalled it and reset the OBD II. The engine light stayed off throughout the test drive, but came on again with the second starting, so I replaced the switch and reset the codes again. He returned the following day and I told him he could just leave the plugs in the garage, until he really needed them and showed him the bad pressure switch. The customer is rarely right, but it does help to pat them on the head every so often, so they get that warm fuzzy feeling and bring you more work the future.

    Simply put, you have to have the "tools", both the $400 OBD II reader, I used on Clyde's Dodge and the ability to not only find the real issues associated with the conditions, but the personal skills to insure you don't have any with the client. This is a simple key to any good enterprise.
     
  3. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Likes: 20, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 167
    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    If I may add my interpretation of the situation.

    Often it seems we get these rather ambigious questions that can and do lead to some pretty heated debates over both the original question and any possible solution. While I can't speak for the OP I would like to add my comments to the thread.

    1) This is the boat builder (Hyboats) asking about a complaint brought to him by one of his customers.

    2) The boat in question is I assume one that they bought from Hyboats and the customer is now wondering why he hears this noise...the drumming and vibrating.

    3) The customer is wondering if adding more foam internally might not be the solution to this noise.

    As Par has correctly pointed out the customer is often wrong and so it's up to the professional to correctly diagnose and cure the problem whatever it might be. Here we have a general complaint about noise in a non specific area, so it would seem to me that the first thing on your check list would be an inspection...including making sure the prop doesn't look like the one pictured.

    I like starting with the obvious first...check everything so you don't look like an idiot later on. If you don't find anything out of the ordinary then it's time to take it for a ride...with or without the customer and try to duplicate the complaint.

    Because of the generalized nature of the complaint we could be looking at anything from a loose hatch cover to a lost tool laying under the deck. Maybe those glassed in hoses shown in the OP's pic are vibrating on the hull...we just don't know for sure. But here again Par has offered some excellent suggestions to help diagnose the problem.

    At this point the only thing we can do is give you some general troubleshooting guidelines, at least until Frosty get his Crystal ball back from the shop.

    MM
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    This is not the customer asking the question., This question is being asked by the man that sold the boat to him ,--the dealer and or builder.

    To assume he knows nothing at all about it nor its performance is an assumption I would not make.

    It would also appear that we still do not yet know if it is inboard or outboard.

    Power steering ATF generally enjoy a simple oil change.

    Thank you PAR for your anonymous point deduction, you should change your rhetoric, as for customer service experience.

    As service manager to Renault for the entire 3 dealers of UAE I would have told the customer his car needs servicing rather than fiddle with it outside trying to get him another 10 miles.
     
  5. hyboats
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 78
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    Location: Sydney

    hyboats Junior Member

    2stroke Mercury outboard engine. 125hp.
     
  6. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Then it should be tested in the water and the vibration located, If the propellor on a visual inspection seems undamaged then it is likely the engine has a cylinder off, IE a misfire causing rough running . However this will come with a noticable loss of power.. and stalling at idle

    If all this checks out then it would seem that a loose hatch or cover could be causing the hum and then that that custom is totally unfamiliar with small speed boats.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 476, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    When on the rare occasion it comes around, I'm usually inclined to be reciprocal Frosty. I think we're all in agreement, that an inspection is in order and my advice would be to have the client bring the boat by for a "courtesy inspection", a quick walk around for the obvious and a relaxed discussion with the owner, to dig for more details. I'll bet it's really obvious, just not to the owner.
     
  8. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    It was not I that deducted points from you, if that were the case then I would not be able to do it again. You will be shocked to realize some one other than myself may not agree with you and your posts being offensive at times.

    I am also often inclined to be reciprocal,-- watch your points later today if I can be really bothered with this childishness.. Thank you.

    On the arrival of you next post and that you have read this I will reciprocate, something I could not do if I had already done so.

    Stupid points system --causes more trouble than anything else.
     
  9. IMP-ish
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 389
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 150
    Location: united states of america

    IMP-ish powerboater

    Can't have him bring the boat for a test drive? Have him video the problem.
     
  10. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I agree about the points system, it should be thrown overboard. Hopefully it won't clog up Frosties water intake, instantly melt his exhaust and the resultant explosions and firestorm burn his boat to the waterline with severe loss of life. But even so, the points system should be gotten rid of. It seems divisive. It supposedly ranks and rates people, but it's not very accurate. I can't think of any other forum where I've seen it.

    In the OP it says 'when driving my boat always druming and vibrating.' How much is always? From the moment the engine is started, or only when put in gear? From the moment it starts moving, or only in certain sea conditions or at certain speeds? Does it come and go or vary in intensity? From the looks of the boat in the photograph it looks well built and sturdy with plenty of reinforcement and no flat panel big enough to be flexible enough to cause drumming and vibration.

    So I'm inclined to believe the problem is with the motor or prop, or possibly those pipes are loose or maybe a stringer is not attached properly. Space limitations seem to rule out the Beach Boys trapped in the bilge. Any noise from them would disappear within a week or two anyways.
     
  11. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    At best, the "noise and vibration" report is ambiguous and needs inspection preferably or at least knowledgeable first party reiteration.
     
  12. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    One way new boat builders eliminate possible client " noise" issues and lawsuits is to hire a noise consultancy at the design stage. Noise Consultants will present you with best practice techniques and equipment , as well as typical noise figures from past projects. This is the only way to protect against clients with noise issues.

    What is noise ?
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Noise is subjective at the very least and very difficult to nail down, without specific guidelines as to decibel levels and the various types of sound transmission, particularly under contract. Even with guidelines, questions about what is acceptable will always rise with some. Many folks can tolerate considerable air borne transmission, while not much mechanical transmission. I'm the other way around, with air borne being what I dislike the most and more tolerant of mechanical. Frequency phasing, reflected or mixed paths, phase cancellation, resonance, etc. all can add to the discomfort in some, while being a less inherent annoyance in others, none of which is especially quantifiable.
     
  14. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    " Noise " levels can only be interpreted against competitor products.

    Boats build with best practice noise control 20 years ago are considered noisy now.

    Recently a friend fitted a new 4 stroke Mercury to his center console skiff. The engine is so quite that you can now hear the fiberglass cockpit sole Crunch under foot and various doors vibrating when underway.

    New constructions must take this into account or the client will think he purchasd a lemon.
     

  15. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 257
    Likes: 20, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 167
    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    Isn't that wonderful. If all else fails we can now offer the OP another possible remedy...get a louder motor...lol. I'm only kidding of course.

    MM
     
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