boat stuck in mould

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by whacker82, May 25, 2012.

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  1. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    its a little like taking a horse to water but cant make it drink .
    treat people with kid gloves and they just exspect more and when you stop they aske what happened to you ??.
    I lost enought sleep over this little boat and the mould .I been waking up just about every morning at 3;00 am and reading and writing and answering and then coming to work and spending more hours with another lot of sillyness and this lot think they are experts and know everything .
    Ok you read from post 1 all and everything on this post to number 405 and note how manytimes not only myself but other people have repeated the same information over and over in almost blow by blow strokes and still he cant get it right .
    If i had the money i would pack my bags and go find this guy and spend a week there and hold his hand .
    why i ask ?? why ?? what isnt getting through ?, what is wrong? , is it the ignorance of youth or to much wacky backy . I have worked with guys and girls under palmtrees with pigs underfoot standing in mud akle deep , they couldnt cant understand one word of english they were shown once and never ever had to repeat myself it clicked straight away .
    Maybe the battery is flat !!
    My eldest son could glass and make things when he was 10 and all he did was watch what i was doing and never stuffed anything . made a mess mind you but everything went hard .
    Two people can use the same materials and make the same things from the same mould but get two completely differant results !! why ?? and the weight variation can be and used to be quite differant !! no two people think the same and asians are on a differant planet completely .
    Gumpy !! i have reason to be !!
    So i am having a weekend away in shanghai with 3 very nice sweet and cheerful Chinese ladies and going sightseeing . !!:D
     
  2. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
    Posts: 611
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    Location: united states

    FMS Senior Member

    Every mistake is a learning experience. It's taken me a few tries to get things right. I've mismixed (twice), mismeasured, miscut, misdrilled, mistaped, misbrushed... usually it's a learning experience and I get better quickly and it feels good to overcome mistakes. When I find myself making too many or making the same mistake twice, it's time to step back and regroup.
     
  3. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Maybe my life has been a bit dull , i have learned from other peoples mistakes and had the job of fixing and remaking things or patching them better than they were .
    One thing i did learn from my fater was if you have a problem to solve is to take a few steps back and find out what were the cause of the repair and how it was made then think out all the steps of doing the prepair then all the tools you will need and get up and go do it .
    I used to sit a watch him just sitting looking then he would get up and make whatever it was he was going to make . I sort of do the same thing and can sit and write almost every step of making something from start to finish including what tools will be needas well . Combined to all these things is the way everything works gel coat will never go hard without catalyst !! just have to know how much same with resin no catalyst wont go hard just need to know how much to add to begin the reaction .
    Logical thinking seems to be hard for some people and the more young people i work with logics are a liitle few and far between
    The powers of obsevation and being able to put together a chain of events that could happen if !!!
    Theres always a chain of events preceeding everything we do , and if you have a good enough imagination you can go back as far as you like !!
    So the only logical conclussion to whackers problems is not understanding what he is doing and reasoning things like weather cold and catalyst ratios to compensate for the conditions .like having a graph inside you head, if its this i need that and maybe just a little more so it will go hard and i will be able to do the other thing after its hard .
    Hasnt been happening !! flat battery i reckon !! :mad:.
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I hope a dirty weekend cheers you up a bit.

    Geez I though i was a grump olde basturd.
     
  5. FMS
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Likes: 22, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 227
    Location: united states

    FMS Senior Member

    If it was easy to manage all the variables and not make mistakes from the starting line, you would be out of a job.
     
  6. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Some time ago almost 2 years ago even when i first got involved with these chinese workers i notices all the resin that they used was promoted if Cobalt . Its ok but not the best . i never thought much about it till were were part way into a boat and the resin was goingoff reall fast the catalyst pump on the gun was almost at its minimum and thats dangerous , with wear and tear over years of use things get worn and the .75% is more like .5% or less !!
    So i asked the resin company why they didnt give us prepromted resin , answer was they do !!! its always promted .
    These clowns had always added cobalt because thats what they had always done since they started working with glass and wondered why all the internal lay up were pulling out of shape with gross shinkage and heat build up !!so for over 18 months we dont use cobalt any more and the shrinkage is almost non exsistant , The first 28 foot hull released its self nearly 4 inchs on each side round the gunnels . the deck did the same ,it curled and popped its self out of the mould in the bow area .
    Dont like cobalt and if i see anyone with it in resin they get it taken off them .
    A couple of times throught the year i had taken samples of resin and used the bottom of a collection of old coke a cola cans as a place to get the same sample sizes usually 6 at a time ,all with differant catalyst ratios starting from .5 % to 3.0 % and lots in between . from the gel times its possible to build a graph of your own thats pretty accurate . tempratures and times and you have your points on a chart, do one in the summer and again in the winter and you can use your gray matter to fill in the spaces between ! some of the resin companies use t publish these charts years ago and were pinned on the wall . I have not seen for a long long time !!:?:. The guys here have the info put away on the computer so no one can find it so that pretty helpfull . :p.
     
  7. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    You want a second oppinion on the grumpy part ?? you could be next !!:p:D

    comes with age so what your excuse !! have been through the mill a few times so earned the right to have a grump now and then !!

    Not into dirty weekends just time out and away with very nice people that i have lots of respect for :D
     
  8. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member



    ill say one thing about ya tunnels, your one stubborn man.
    you dont know when to let someone call it a day, ive spent all summer on this, and bit by bit it has destroyed the confidence i had on building boats.
    its done its over, if i was given a new mould now id just leave it there for a year or so, im drained tired and dont want to be doing it anymore.

    (This is completely contridicting what you said about traveling and doing things and having adventures)

    i told you this in confidence too, this was my way of getting money together. so it hit hard when it never worked.

    sometimes its juts better to say well done you gave it your best, and i have ive come along way learned a **** load, and that im grateful of.
    put it to bed tunnels i have, and if i have so should you.

    still raining.
     
  9. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 146
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member

    if you came over tunnels id leave the dog off his leash and id turn my back on ya, shame on you you bitter man, you have no right to accuse me of those things you dont know me, ive been tired of you sly remarks for some time now but this you wont get away with. patrinising me constantly and like an fool id take it all for the sake of that boat out the back,
    many a time ive though not to come back here an update what went right or wrong with the boat, and its because of you. and this isent the first thread you were like this to me either.
    you lost sleep ha dont make me laugh, if you were losing sleep you should have told me and id come over and sing you a lulaby. *******.:mad::mad:
     
  10. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Yep. Tunnels has beat the **** out of that dead horse. It reminds me of a cat that got run over on the busy street here, all splayed out like a cartoon. After about a week it still looked just like a cat but was thin like a small tiger rug. I thought about putting it on the wall in my workshop.

    Gelcoat is a *****. I have never been able to brush it on and not end up with alligatoring. Catalyst and temperature don't have anything to do with it when brushing, it's just too thin in areas and then those alligator.

    Keep the hull you made protected, so it doesn't get messed up or go out of shape before you get back to it.

    Let me suggest you do some smaller stuff for awhile. Make a plug and mold for something small that you might be able to sell, or as a hobby or something to do, like a console or fishbox or something. Maybe a RC model boat. Your experience might get you some work in a fiberglass place, if there's any around. It helps a lot to see how it's done, instead of just reading about it. There is a lot on YouTube also.

    That was kind of a big article to be starting with and not only that, it was kind of a complicated article with all those lapstrake corners and edges and skeg pockets and stuff. There were plenty of places for things to go wrong. The fact that it was the gelcoat that tripped you up and not the layup or the release says a bunch.

    Also, I don't know how extensive the alligatoring was (and alligatoring is a common gelcoat problem) but usually it can be repaired, by either doing some grinding and repairing like you did on the mold and hull, or by just filling with thickened gelcoat, sanding and buffing.

    I don't think tunnels means bad at all, in any way, he's only trying to help. His delivery can sure suck though. ;)
    It makes me wonder what ******* means, with 7 letters and no spaces. My niece lived in Ireland for a year or so. I told her I got thrown off one of these boat forums because some UK guy was calling everyone a tw*t all the time. To them (British) apparently a tw*t means a twit, eventually someone told him a tw*t is not a twit in the US. I told her I got banned for making a joke about how strange it would be to be able to sit down and talk with the Queen about tw*ts and fags and it would be OK. My niece said that wasn't so bad, that where she lived in Ireland everyone called each other c**ts, like in a friendly greeting, 'Hey! How have you been, you old c**t!' I probably wouldn't try that around the Queen, though.
     
  11. hardguy007
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Ballymoney

    hardguy007 Junior Member

    Whacker you've def given it a good go but have been unlucky. Just want to say good luck when you give it a bash again. One thing (I'll think you'll agree) is think of what you've learned which is more than most people on the planet. By the way if or when you do get at it give me a pm as I would be interested in a mould. Chin up and all the best.

    James
     
  12. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member

    Thank you, I'm coming out of this with knowledge that I never could have imagined. I hope your a patient man be awhile I'd say. THanks again
     
  13. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    never say never !! and giving quiting is not an option !!!

    Stuborn no persistsnt yes . never give up , everytime a brick wall gets inthe way you either knock it down or go round ,under ,over, and get past it some how pesistance . i taught 4 son's to play soccer and i coached teams we never gave up and i drummed it into the kids all the time . there are no excuses and very few reasons , i have never been handed any thing so if i wanted some thing i had do get it and do it alone if need be
    The three ladies i am going to Shanghai with i have taken under my wing and show them that women can do anything . never say never . I am also giving them a dream beyond there wildest thoughts and taking them all to New Zealand for 2 weeks holiday next year all exspences paid including spending money . i am so sure the money invested in there future will give them the will to do something with there lives when i am no longer here . In one year they together have become little forces to be reckoned with and there outlook has changed they think possitive and we all look out for each other !! they are better people . No i will never give up . giving up is not an option and never will be . you think you are alone during your time theres a few others that are forging ahead with there own projects and they are really big a couple of then . My suggestion to you is you pack a bag and find a fibre glassing place some where any where and you spend 6 months to a year working in a glass shop and when you think you have it sorted go find another place and start your learning all over again . then you will realise every where you go they are doing thing differantly each place is not the same as the one before . everyone you work with has there own pet ways of doing things all differant but getting the same end result .
    So NEVER SAY NEVER . its even in a song so learn it and remember every word till it drives you mad . persistance you need a huge shot of persistance !! i sliced my leg with a skill saw and almost chopped my hand off ,with leg in plaster and a arm in plaster the day after they sowed it all back together i went home got out of the van and walk up my drive unassisted . every day i washed dish's ,i washed cloths, i folded cloths ,i peeled veges and pumpkin and every morning i was out of bed and gettng breakfast for the family . if i can move i am not going to laydown , quiting is never going to happen . My van was a auto so just needed one hand and one foot so i drive as well to pick up the kids from school in the afternoons .
    I hope you are getting my message !! so get on with it !! :eek:
     
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I was going to post some information about grumpy people in China and why they are like that but I have to go out.
     
    1 person likes this.

  15. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    I truly believe that there is life outside the fiberglass shed ... I know it must be there :rolleyes:
     
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