boat stuck in mould

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by whacker82, May 25, 2012.

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  1. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    There we go !! Taken a while but that would be what i been looking for ! Dont feel ashamed its why i kept asking for intermite details and dont leave anything out !! had to be something you had done something simple !! now you know as other will now as well !!.
    Never ever ever use acetone to clean a mould !!!!! unless you intend to use a electric buff and cutters and polish it !! then start from scratch waxing !!!wax was completely removed as in total ,even styrene is a no but not as harsh .Like i said it had to be something simple . now i will be able to sleep better !! YES !!
    Most acetones you buy are laced with other things and you will never know whats been added or for what reason . one additive is to slow eveporation . We had a recycler and used to get 99.99 % clean acetone and it was quite differant to the stuff from out of the drum .
    There are flushings that some of the oils companies have that we used to buy as well ,every drum smelt differant some was good some was next to useless .
    Now i have a smile or two . :D:p:)

    Im off work for 4 days ! going to look at another big company here in china , it could mean a complete new job starting a new branch within part of another company . its exciting and stimulating to be a part of some thing completely new . its just a part of what i done many times over the years .

    I am glad also you been doing some testing of your own !! not all products are 100% useable or compatable with other things so if you get something new ,do a sample , do a test ! find out for yourself yes it works or no its not doing what its suposed to . The acetone alone would be ok its what mixed in it that caused the problem !!

    If you ever have a cut or a sore that wont heal wash it with clean acetone !! hurts like hell but will heal very quickly in just a couple of days . you never heard that from me!! :p
     
  2. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 257
    Likes: 20, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 167
    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    I don't know about cuts healing any faster, but I do know it hurts like hell...lol

    MM
     
  3. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    No gain without pain !!
    Its got to be 100 % new not grubby stuff with who know what mixed in it !!.
    Not for sissy's:p
     
  4. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 146
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member

    today ive decided to pack up my project, its too much of a risk for me to take to buy materials for a mold build, and at the end of it, there is a chance it will get stuck again, and prob lose the mold and boat. if this happened the loss for me would be catastrophic. im on my own doing this, i know im getting all the help i can possible get here and i am extremely grateful for all the imput ive recieved, being honest its over whelming. when i first put up the thread i though maybe one or two replys but what ive got was amazing the amount im after learning is huge compared to when i first started out a couple of months ago.
    but the problem is ive no one beside me to exactly show where im going wrong and what i should be doing. explaining how to do something through mailing here is fine but getting someone to show me first hand is another.
    another reason why to throw in the towel is i readvertised the boat i had for sale again, just to see if there was any bites. not one call or text or mail did i get. which was two weeks ago.
    at the moment ive repainted the hull using flow coat and its looking well but taking a long time to dry still a tad sticky, but its looking really well. ill have photos up later this evening.
    im sorry now i really do feel like im letting ye down here but i have to look at the big picture here. if i was to go ahead and buy the materials and if it got stuck again, and the boat and mold were lost. id make a loss of 900euro which for an unemployed fellow is a heck of a lot of money. if i fix up the boat and sell it and dont buy any materials im up 900euro. i hope ye can see my point here, the window for boat selling here in ireland closed about a month ago. i remember when i advertised the first boat i was inondated with calls emails and texts. people ringing for orders and others wanting to come down to see the boat with cash. but since the second one got stuck i was turning down these people telling them i was too busy. and from that to nothing. for an example my boats are for sale at 650euro its still up on a website for sale, now ive seen other boats come up for sale like 19ft anglers fance copy with trailer for 450euro, anther was a 10ft clinker wooden boat with 2.5hp wind engine 500euro, ( this boat looked class) last one was a 10ft clinker gpr boat with trailer and 2.5hp mariner outboard for 650euro, in excellent condition. i cant compete with these prices. its a buyers market here in ireland now.
    what ill do is keep the money and buy another boat mold somthime in the year and have it for next year, the window is usually from april to a week or two into june, and that seems to be it.
    i hope ye understand why ive to do this, its just too big of a risk for me, anyway ill have a few pictures up later and ill continue to put up pictures of my progress until i finish the boat.
     
  5. hardguy007
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 28
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    Location: Ballymoney

    hardguy007 Junior Member

    So your saying there is only 2 months of the year to sell a boat???? I'm hoping theres only 2 months of a year not to sell a boat.lol. Im anticipiating that sept to march will be the busiest for me as im selling them as kits for home completion so im hoping people will want them to work on over the winter. And those other prices would have to be for 2nd hand boats surely. It simply wouldn't be possible to buy the materials for 450 and if the can it musnt be a very heavy layup. I'm doing exactly what you were doing only my mould builds these ( http://www.seaswift.co.uk/hardboats/boats_hardboats_seaswift435.html) and the materials cost (not inc floor) is circa £800 to £900. Myself personally would rather buy a new hull/boat purley because it is new and it would have no repairs. Yes it may be more expensive than a 2nd hand boat but at least (broadly speaking) you know what you have.
     
  6. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member

    those ones are second hand but in mint condition, there is nothing happening in ireland no one is buying anymore especially if its for pleasure. if i was getting calls the whole time i would just continue and finish the mold but im not. ive seen boats for an absolute bargain for sale here and it would take 3 seasons for it to sell and some dont sell at all. need to move to america or oz or even canada for this to work for me. i seen that mould up for sale on ebay, did you buy it or did you take it down again, i would have loved it.
     
  7. hardguy007
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Ballymoney

    hardguy007 Junior Member

    Yes, i bought it direct from them. I do think there is a market all the same. Think of predators/raiders etc. they are all still selling and there brave big money boats. I would have said the opposite as in its the commercials are harder to sell as more and more are packing up. Older boats are becoming harder to keep up to regs and ones that arnt coded are having a hard time getting coded. Ive another project on the go (here) and a boy up the road sold one almost identical 3 years ago for over £20k and now you mite be lucky to get half that. As i said im aiming for home completion sales. My current boat was bought that way last year and i liked the fact you can finish how you want plus you dont have to fork out big bucks all at one time. Come christmas when ive a few done ill have a better idea if my plan works.....hopefully it will. I do know that the seaswift has sold in excess of 60 boats over the past 5 or 6 years which i think is good going bearing in mind these were all finished boats and the cheapest was £5k excluding engine.
     
  8. Tungsten
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Canada

    Tungsten Senior Member

    My hat goes off to ya Whacker,i've been reading this since the start and had truly hoped it was going to worked out for ya.

    I wish you the best of luck.
     
  9. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    If you use established materials in established ways, you have no problems. If you use dirty rags, or start wiping molds off with acetone, wd 40, brake cleaning fluid, etc., problems develop. It's actually simple.

    Boatbuilding is a very cyclical thing in two or three ways.
    1. The main economy, if people don't have money, they don't buy.
    2. Seasonal, they buy hotly at the beginning of a season, not at the end.
    3. The cost of production. High oil prices, materials, complexity, etc.

    There are other considerations also.

    1. Although it was a nice looking boat, with all the strakes, your boat looked like a time and labor nightmare to properly roll out the laminate to have no bubbles in it.

    2. Being such a nice looking boat, and being an obviously splashed mold with no tooling resin, way too flexible, no reinforcements or stands or even something to keep it from rolling around on the ground, I wondered about the ethicalness of the mold, whether it was even 'legal' to be using it, being possibly a copy of someone's current production boat.

    3. There is also the issue of your legal liabilities in manufacturing boats for sale. Everything in Ireland may be different, but here in the USA where we manufacture lawyers like loaves of bread, we are liable for anything that may happen to a buyer of our products, no matter how stupid the things they did were, or how many built-in safeguards they had to dismantle to do it. It is so easy to be sued, and so expensive to defend yourself, that even if you win big, you also lose big.

    Helping you to win is following all the regulations and requirements for things like flotation, proper construction methods for strength and durability etc. If your boat sinks because of your methods used, you have problems. If your boat starts looking bad because of your methods used, blisters, cracks, fading, discoloring, etc., you have problems too.

    It seems like you still might need some more experience if the flow coat you used on the boat was for polyester gel coat. It doesn't 'dry' by evaporation, it 'cures' by chemical reaction. A few hours should suffice, if it's still tacky after a day, you have problems.

    Overall, you tried pretty well. Now that you don't have a market for anything and aren't rushed, you can take your time and get things right. You might try making small accessory parts like consoles, seats, fishboxes, etc., going through the whole plug, mold, product cycle to get experience for little risk. There is a whole host of stuff made with fiberglass, not just boats.

    Good luck.
     
  10. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 146
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member

    Warriors are a win win here too but what about copy right laws? I seen some really nice boats on ebay.co.UK and they were selling for pennys. I was going to bring them over here first to sell but the ferry was expensive and by the time I would have it paid for as well as petrol it would have balanced out maybe one or two hundred would be made. That's why I went to the mould. I'll save up some money and buy the proper equipment needed spray gun chopper gun maybe and a bigger
    SHed. And go and work wit a boat builder for awhile. BUt by no means am I finished my boat building career not by a long shot
     
  11. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 257
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    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    Whacker,
    I understand completely, and wish you the best of luck. Who would have thought a stuck mold thread would generate 22 pages of advice...probably a bit overwhelming.

    MM
     
  12. whacker82
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 146
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: ireland

    whacker82 Senior Member

    CHeers Midnitmike, I know still can't believe it. It's been all good
     
  13. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Enthusiasum is the quickest killer of dreams !!!

    Hi a long time back was a young guy that did lots things you done but some where he must had seem the light and has or had his own glass company . Allan Powers in dublin see if you can find him . was making high speed tunnel boats last i saw . but he started like you did
    You know where to come for information !! my advice is to go work for a glass company and when you think you know it all go to another company and then another till you eventually run out of places to work try industrial and marine glassing learn and keep learning absorb knowledge , every place you go has good and bad you pick !!
    during my early days i would spend just 4 months at any one place then move on ,always learning till eventually the penny dropped and i had all the good ideas learned from each place i worked plus a few of my own . i got to know travelers and people in the companies making the products ! chemists love to tell you how great they are and they always have a few pet things they work on of there own . always learning it never stops . never ever pretend to know it all !!, even in a whole life time you will never know it all .
    yes its hard work being a loner and you learn from mistakes and you made plenty thats or sure . so seal all your containers and pack them away for a rainy day . read everything you can lay you hands on .
    No chopper guns are not what you should be thinking about , sure they are quick but make a hell of a mess every where and you do not have any idea about the most simple basics of resin and glass . just like infusion forget all about those things . you have to get your feet planted firmly with just the basics that work 100% of every time you do glassing .
    One step at a time and build from there.
    Boats is a complicated subject as well and frankly you have lots of mixed up and very confused thoughts that you realy dont understand much about boats at all . Power boats you need to get into racing to understand the basics of hull design and how boats work . its a varied and vast subject . learning all about motors and the diffreant drives that are availible . each one has advantages over others there is no perfect unit or system .
    Have fun you scratched the surface of boating and glassing and you got bitten .
    Enthusiasum is the quickest killer of dreams big and small !! remember that !!dont be blinded by enthusiasum !!!
    :D:p:)
     
  14. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    This is it !!

    http://www.powermarine.ie/welcome.htm
    I advise to go see him and have a talk if possible !! 2002 he was well into doing what he was doing !!:D
    I think was 1996 or there abouts he was just starting to do some glassing on a wee boat may have been a little later maybe to long ago any way .

    Alan used to be on this place http://www.screamandfly.com/forum.php
    Have a look see at what its all about !!! sign up , sign in and log on . its all performance stuff and you could learn a heap from there . same but differant !!!Look and learn you got a long hard road ahead of you !!
     

  15. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Did you say you having trouble with flow coat and its still sticky ?? what did you do?? its one of the easyest things in the world to use !!, just add catalyst , stir well and use !! 2 hours tops should be hard enough to walk on just about .sticky ???? why sticky ?? did you make your own ??

    WHAT are you thinking when you are going to do fibreglassing?? is your mind 110% on what you doing or what ??surely by this time you must know a few really basic things about what your using ,it cant be all a complete mystery to you !!.

    Gel coat to make flow coat !!
    add small % of resin
    add small % of liquid wax
    stir well till wax is completely mixed !! wax does not like to mix so takes a while and hangs all oveer the sides of the container !!
    Add 2% Catalyst and Mix well and use !!
    How easy is that if you want to use just standard gelcoat !!!
    A little resin with the mix makes it flow better and ends up smoother .
    The wax floats to the surface and seals the air away and 2 hours its done and hard !! BUT NOT CURED !!that could take 12 hours or so !.

    Why is it sticky ??
    why isnt it rock hard ??
    didnt you add wax ??

    All way through your site from page one you have been given some of the very best advise i seen anywhere and people have gone all out to give you answers to everything and more .
    If you read and dont understand just say so !! . theres a million and one ways of doing things but from all that info you still dont understand theres something wrong . If you are not a practical person then you will have hard time forever !! if you can sit and work things out in your head them ok !!
    I remember you saying you were saturated with advise !! completely understandable but put all that info in prospective it was still only telling you how to do the job nothing else !!
    All started at point A and ended at point B !! just how to get there was differant !!

    Advise also if you go to work for a glass company say nothing about your past glassing exsperiances , and learn completely from scratch !!.
    Just remember if you ask silly questions you could get a silly answers !!:eek:

    I had a young guy came to join our team he was dislexik !! He was doing a boat building course because thats what he was intersted in he used to get violent and throw what ever he had in his hand at the time !!.
    All this stemed from frustration . He was transfered from another department because they couldnt do anything with him and worked with my team of 8 guys ,everyone of us took the time to show and discribe every detail what we were doing and how and why . within 4 months not one tantrum , in 6 months he got a 95% pass for the glassing section of his course and we had a friend for life . Even his girlfriend came to ask what we had done because her was a completely changed person .

    I already said if you wernt so far away id would come and lean over you shoulder .
    Ireland is one of the places i intend to try for next year on my visit to North of england . Sligo is my point of interest where the oldies came from and need to spend possibly a week in the area looking for relations if there are any !.
    Get on you horse and go find every glassing place and work for free if need be and get you head on straight about FRP !!
    ITS REALLY SIMPLE BELIEVE ME !! IF I CAN DO IT ANY ONE CAN !!
     
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