Boat Heating

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by rosbullterrier, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. rosbullterrier
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Cornwall, UK

    rosbullterrier Junior Member

    I'm coming to the final stage of rebuilding the side bunk frames either side of the central fuel tank in my 8m Zingaro Express.
    I've realised before finishing the ply tops, if there is to be a heating system such as the Eberspacher installed in the engine compartment, the hot air pipes would need to be placed inside these side bunks to reach the forward cabin or front seats (under a canvas hood)

    Then I thought, I really fancy installing a nice Honda generator in the back bunk for that domestic trivia - TV, microwave and such.
    Now a pure sine inverter generator costs a shedload, about the same as an Eberspacher. And a proper commercial deep cycle battery for these items also costs a lot more than your standard 'leisure' battery.

    So, how about purchasing the generator, cancelling the diesel heater (with ducting) and posh battery - and using some small fan heaters.
    However I have seen no comparison with the use of electricity as the fuel for heating, only diesel, LPG, or paraffin.

    Is there a vital flaw in my reasoning, too obvious to be discussed?
     
  2. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

    Not sure of your question but that generator has to be sitting outside on a deck with no covers to operate. While the small ones are quiet you can still hear them. If you use electric heaters they will draw enough that your generator will not be at idle but probably at half speed. How about a small wood stove? 12 x 12 x 12" or a 7" round by 11" high? I can provide links if you want them.
     
  3. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Two things,you would need a fairly large generator to run any kind of electric heaters and surely you are not going be pulling in to a quiet anchorage and firing up a generator with no consideration for anyone else who may like the peace and quiet. I would suggest you stick to the Eberspacher and spend some money on amp storage and an inverter for the TV and microwave so you can be a good neighbor rather than one of those selfish *********. My guess is you have a power boat and have ample charging capacity.
    Steve.
     
  4. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    There are more effective ways to accomplish what you want.
    Diesel powered heater. Solar, Engine water, Water heater boiler. Get a really tiny water cooled generator with very good mufflers, can heat water that you can run into cabin water heat blower. I guess it also depends on how cold it is going to get and your boat. My problem is usually the opposite.
     
  5. rosbullterrier
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Cornwall, UK

    rosbullterrier Junior Member

    I'm sorry you frequent the habitats of 'selfish *********'. But yes, it is a power boat of just 26feet overall length rather than a canal barge and possibly a wood burning stove might not be quite appropriate.
    I have not had the experience of using either an Eberspacher or this generator (or mooring in a public marina), which is why I seek advice to put together the best formula. Reinventing the wheel is a bit timewasting.

    I am even more concerned about hearing background noise myself while enjoying electrical delights than upsetting neighbours (I would not have any)
    I do read the Eberspacher does emit a noticeable noise. The generator I have listed as suitable is advertised as:

    Honda EU26i Super Silent Generator: portable and ultra quiet ideal for a small office
    Noise Output: 49dB(a) at 7m @ 1/4 load
    This reputable advertiser shows a decibel table -
    75 average traffic on main road (at kerb)
    65 normal conversation at 1 metre
    49 living room in suburban area
    35 library

    The waste gas duct through the hull for a petrol/LPG generator should be similar to that for the diesel Eberspacher? - except much, much cleaner -
    To run the main inboard/outdrive engines for anything other than propulsion would be not only noisy but expensive.
    I would have thought, while at rest, the heat from well under 1kw would be sufficient, while under way with 2 kw the noise would be drowned anyway . . .
     
  6. TollyWally
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Fox Island

    TollyWally Senior Member

    diesel heat etc

    I had an older diesel Eberspacher heater that was magnificent but unreliable. The cost of parts was quite high. I happily ripped it out and put in an old fashioned diesel stove that makes me very happy. The Eberspacher is over complicated, over engineered,, it's been built too safe!

    My .02
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Ros
    the Eberspächer is a very good, silent (not as loud as the Honda) and reliable heater, and does´nt guzzle the Diesel, but its not cheap. But you have to service the beast.
    1kw of heat radiation in our northern weather is nothing more than a big candle, forget it.
    If the boat can be heated by a oven I would recommend the "Refleks" or "Willow" Diesel ovens for outstanding quality and reliability. They provide a single cooking plate as well! And you do´nt need another fuel to operate them. But can be adapted to wood.
    http://www.toplicht.de/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher

    El.heating you should forget, it is unaffordable.
    El. power management is quite not easy, but not a miracle too.
    These petrol driven Honda genny´s are handy and convenient and for a canal barge for shure the cheapest way to go. The risks of petrol on board you know naturally. The Microwave you operate for about 10 minutes a day, that is not worth talking (although they drain some 1.5 KWH). The TV running all night for the daily cricket, soccer and polo results is another story, as is the lighting. Do not underestimate the power demand for basic lighting. But I guess, if you run the genny for some 90 minutes a day, and the alternator is charging your "hotel" bank too, while main is running, you do´nt need any sophisticated solutions. But take care! The average alternator cannot charge both batteries, the starter and the "house" are of a different type (or should be if you do´nt want to replace them every second month).
    Have a look here, and download "achieving the impossible" to get a deeper understanding of the different ways to manage the different power demands.
    http://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/white-papers/
    Then forget about the high tech - high cost solution and choose a simple way. You will know which one.
    Regards
    Richard
     
  8. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Stan, Webasto is a German company as Eberspächer, they have been neighbours in Esslingen, Germany, and the prices, quality and so on are all the same.
    Regards
    Richard
     
  10. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

    Richard, all the address I had from their website were in AU. Sorry about that. I just sent you a Pm. Best, Stan
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You are allways wellcome mate, and do´nt worry, I was corrected today as well, by Ad Hoc! That´s what makes it worth to be a member of this community, we can learn daily, all of us!
    Cheers
    Richard
     
  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Living in a Northern climate and having experienced many heating alternatives, my vote is for a bigger, better, generator and electric heaters you can throw out at the end of their life. If there are large periods with no need for generation other than heat, then like Apex said. If there is no good place for diesel stove, then Wabasto, Espar, etc., but they all will surprise you with the failure rate. Of course, we always respect others in quiet anchorages - unless they're pissy. Then we run generators and Metalica till 3:00AM. Perhaps you can relate more specifics about your heat and electric needs...If running ten hours a day without need for TV, etc., you need a diesel stove or furnace and an inverter for your computer and coffee maker. If the generator is running anyway, electric heat is the way.
     
  13. rosbullterrier
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Cornwall, UK

    rosbullterrier Junior Member

    Gentlemen I am indebted.
    The fundamental problem is I am a complete virgin to being the owner/user of a mobile marine caravan. Firstly it was the dreaming the adventure of visiting interesting inaccessible coves and Channel Islands ports. Then - well to be honest, Her Indoors is a bit of a girly, and the need to implement minor domestic comforts quickly and easily would persuade her to accompany my sad self.

    The boat is not roomy enough for anything resembling sittingroom ironmongery and is a sports boat so will bounce up and down a bit . . . (8.1m open planing motor boat with twin 170hp i/o's. Front two berth cabin with cooker/sink/head enclosed overall with canvas canopy - Fletcher Zingaro Express)

    Tomorrow I shall be finishing and filling with polyurethane foam the side bunks/boyancy tanks which are under the seats either side of the central (large) fuel tank. So it would be better if fitting warm air ducting from the engine compartment to the cabin to place them now!

    I don't think I could afford the fuel to be running ten hours a day! Now - if I had a deep cycle commercial battery which (inverted) could run those domestic items - wouldn't it take a long time to recharge, too long to repeat its useage the next day?
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If you install a heavy duty alternator with electronic regulator (do´nt find the right term), that should do.
    more info here:
    http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/03.Banks/index.html
    Then go for your first choice for heating, Eberspächer or Webasto, they are NOT unreliable, if you do the (minor) service, but can stand the pounding on a planing boat, no other heater can survive that.

    Regards
    Richard
     

  15. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    He's right. Not unreliable. I believe I said something about failure rate and that is unfair. It's just that on work boats we put a lot of hours on and it seems like more new parts for the Espar (eberspacher) every year. I don't have any other gear that requires that.
     
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