Blue Water micro-cruiser tri's?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by scotdomergue, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Gday Steve

    In the book The Capsize Bugaboo there is a pic of an inverted tri - IIRC - it is Klis and a bloke hanging off a pole. Bernard wrote an article for the book and said he did flip it, maybe for a bet or to check he could before he set out across the Pacific.

    I really like the Clipper. It was good small tri and we used to have quite a few around here. They are thinner on the ground now.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  2. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Yes the Clipper is a good one. Alan Nicol said the family still has the plan transparencies for it as well as most of the other designs. I'd love to send him some money to print me a set of the Clipper plans, Do you want to to be the man on the continent and nag him for me? I'll try to look him up again. Last time we talked he was redoing the laundry room and didn't want to take the time! Arrgh!
     
  3. scotdomergue
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    scotdomergue Scot

    Bigger is not always better. Half again the size is 2.25 the area and 3.375 the volume - so much heavier, needing much more sail, having much greater resistance through the water. I don't like and don't want an engine (gas, diesel). I prefer to use oars for auxiliary power. I built a 19-foot small cruising tri that I could paddle (single blade paddle) at 2.5 to 3 knots with 2 people and gear and supplies for a week aboard. I like that! Also far less maintenance, etc. Small IS beautiful.
     
  4. scotdomergue
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    scotdomergue Scot

    Bigger is not always better. Half again the size is 2.25 the area and 3.375 the volume - so much heavier, needing much more sail, having much greater resistance through the water. I don't like and don't want an engine (gas, diesel). I prefer to use oars for auxiliary power. I built a 19-foot small cruising tri that I could paddle (single blade paddle) at 2.5 to 3 knots with 2 people and gear and supplies for a week aboard. I like that! Also far less maintenance, etc. Small IS beautiful.
     
  5. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Gee, I can paddle my 37' at least 1.5 knots with a canoe paddle and am sure I could break 3 with a pedal drive. We can supply at least a couple months without having to think about it or weigh things out. I can stand up, be sheltered, have an oven. Sail fast through rough water, seat 6 for dinner take a dozen for a day sail...... its a long list but there is a happy size where the boat does more for taking care of you than you do in taking care of it or being over taxed in handling or maintaining. And you can go farther in worse weather safely. I've spent lots of time in small boats and like them for what they can do, I even carry one for a dinghy but bigger can be just as fun and far more comfortable and safe in a much wider range of conditions over a longer range of time. Horses for courses.
     
  6. scotdomergue
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    scotdomergue Scot

    To each his own!
     
  7. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    It's time to refit my 17' sailing canoe. It has lifeboat style side buoyancy chambers for capsize recovery and re boarding while diving. The dagger is offset so I can sleep in it and the hiking seats can be used as oar outriggers for when paddling isn't fast enough.... Minimal cruising in the PNW is great as long as you remember there are days you have to stay on beach! It is pretty roughed up from being used as the dink in rough, rocky Northern waters......
     
  8. olsurfer
    Joined: Mar 2015
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    olsurfer Junior Member

    Not A Bluewater Cruiser but Perfect For the SF Bay

    I'm workin on gettin a micro cruiser back in shape to go poking around SF bay and the delta. It's cabin is tiny by today's standards and it will be like backpacking but it can be paddled with a canoe paddle if the outboard quits. There are so many places to explore and with the shallow draft it will be able to go to many more locations that my mono-hull couldn't. I'm still doin epoxy work on her and kickin myself in the *** for not gettin it done during our "autoclave" summer temps. I hope to learn her temperment anbd get some time in the saddle before the 3 bridge fiasco. She is the perfect size for me and I can't wait to splash her soon.
     
  9. catsketcher
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Gday Scot

    Small is beautiful - a great tri by Brown, White and Newick. For ocean going you are going to have to deal with waves that have a certain energy. As it is likely that you will hit by strong winds and waves crossing an ocean a multi will need more stability than the energy found in strong tradewinds and gales. A small tri just doesn't have much stability - its just basic physics. The original post was about viable bluewater tris - it's a very different proposition from mucking around near land - then beaching can be a great safety technique but offshore is totally different.

    I used to own a 24 ft Nugget. Scared the heck out of me quite often offshore. Then I got a 31ft tri - rarely scared. 38ft cat - never been scared of it doing something silly - its very secure. Nothing against the designers of the smaller boats - it is just that the wind and waves I sail in have enough energy to get close to a smaller tris ultimate stability. I also have a 19ft trailersailer cat (plus a 7.2 metre one as well - I am no big boat snob)- great little cruisers but I would be much more careful crossing the Whitsunday channel in them than the 38ft cat.

    You can't get around the physics and offshore there is no place to hide.
     
  10. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    A bigger boat is always going to be more stable, ie, a 45 ft cat will be more stable than a 38ft cat but a 50 ft cat will be more stable than a 45ft cat, its always going to be an arms race but the op is specifically interested in a very small cruising tri, not a bigger one so why don't we try not to impose our views on him. I have owned a 36ft cat and currently a 30ft cat but I believe that Klis pretty much fulfils his sor, Ed Horstman has a very nice 24 ft tri design that may be suitable, the Nugget and Searunner 25 have been suggested. Any others.
     
  11. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    You know I'd build a Clipper but that Horstman would float like a cork and has the internal volume to make life bearable if you don't fill the space up and overload. A Cross 24 might work but a 26 would be better. A short rig on a Scarab or Farrier? Anybody have the equation used to determine stability ratings for the European zone? That would be a useful comparison tool. I've got it down somewhere. A real big challenge of that size is the weight of the safety gear you'd want, sea anchor, drogue, immersion suit, electronics etc....it is going to be the same on any boat but in a small craft it is a much bigger part of the payload. Back in the day when Nuggets actually sailed to Hawaii nobody had that stuff weighing the boat down.
     
  12. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    I had a very good discussion with my friend Emmanuel Berque this morning on this subject posted by the op. I have always advocated less is more, he advised to watch the attached movie http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4z6vo7_film-micromegas-3-sous-titre-english_shortfilms also on their catamaran voyage on Cat boat Mk5. http://www.sansboussole.com he said to take all of their coverage on the non navigation aparatus out of the movie and add a cabin and you pretty much have what you propose. The noise, motion and constant damp cramped conditions was their biggest mental and physical challenge. JFWIW from a man who has done first hand what others talk of. Email him he is a very nice man as is his brother Maximilien.

     
  13. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    See this is the thing, at what point does the proliferation of "safety" equipment become a hazard in itself.
    I have a mate who planned a coastal voyage of several hundred k on his beach cat, the bags of spares and "just in case" stuff nearly sunk the boat, a wetsuit, a sleeping bag, some water and some cash might have made it doable but he never left.
    My biggest must have would be self steering of some sort, bungee cords or battery powered, fatigue kills.
     

  14. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The self steering would be good but you could set the para anchor and sleep and it might save you in a blow where you couldn't use the self steering anyway. Personally I'd throw out the electronics and big battery except for handheld devices. Vane steering wouldn't use electricity. Probably the best way to save weight is with a hand operated water maker with spares so you don't have to carry so much water. You should never give up the survival suit. The next thing to chuck would be your friend on a long distance run as you'd be saving their weight + the water and food, clothing survival suit etc.... You could talk to a basketball like Tom Hanks in Castaway, have fewer arguments and it would add flotation. 28' now you can have a friend on those longer hauls but since I agree with Phil I'd be in a searunner 31 so we could go to seperate cabins when we needed space.
     
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