Bio-diesel

ya I'd like to have some way to test the quality of the fuel if its not such a big deal to do. I've been looking at the water separators and they are pretty brainless, and the filter units I had picked out cost $20 a filter, no point in that. I'm going to use a couple of inverted cones at the bottom of a 55 gallon drum and let the centrifugal filter ( separates water just fine but doesn't have enough volume for the potential amount of water I might get in a drum of WMO ) spill gently down over them. I'll install drain at the bottom of the drum with a clear purge drain on it so I can see if I have water or when I'm done draining water and another drain above that so I can draw cleaned WMO off the system and into the recycling drum. That way I can catch all the water in the world and dont have to spend on filters to do it. Actually costs me a bit more to set up though cause those drum size cones are expensive, $30 each and I need two and a clear purge valve.

Eventually I'd like to use one of those huge oil filters off a tractor rig but for now I'll just go with the smaller units.



uses rolls of paper as a filter medium

 

Ok ordered the centrifugal filter unit 60 gph and the double filter/heater unit as well. I also found two 1/4 hp 24 volt DC motors for $30 new to run the geared pump but haven't ordered them yet. I'm a cheap bastad what can I say. Also landed the 1/2 HP transfer pump on sale for when I'm just tooling around town and don't want to carry an excess of fuel on board.

got some single use 55 gallon drums coming my way freebe so that should help and all in all I'm well on the way to a styling filter set up both on board and in sitch

I'm trying to set up a system where I can filter waste oils both on board and at home. I'm thinking of a 200 gallon bed tank for semi clean fuel that polishes as it goes and another for home that does the dirty work on raw waste oils both motor and vegetable.

should means that as various fuels present themselves I can make the best use of them

 

ah progress
got the storage drums
got the transfer pump
got the fluid pressure regulator and hard plumbing stuff
still waiting on the filter pump head and motor as well as the centrifugal filter and the duel remote filter/bracket thing.

working on a simple pallet burning fuel heater to warm the stuff up for processing, the one for on-board will be electric but for now while I am just working in the back yard I'll go with wood.

I'm going to end up running the retirement build off either WMO or WVO I can just see it coming. Trying to work it out with solar and wind and batteries and a generator is not only way more expensive but its lots more to go wrong as well.

cheers
B

 

Trying to work it out with solar and wind and batteries and a generator is not only way more expensive but its lots more to go wrong as well.

And if home made fuel a total failure , Diesel is at your local fuel dock , just waiting for you!

FF

 

exactly
if for whatever reason alternative fuels are not available or at least the ingredients I can always bite the bullet and throw some diesel in it if I have to.

 

"I am skeptical of the deniers diatribe"


Which one ?

The ICE AGE is coming (1970)

or Global Warming will drown us all ?(2005)

Both were money makers for the Hoaxers, politicians and imbecile media.

FF

 

40 years ago it was thought that the cyclical/natural processes might still have a chance to prevail as the dominating force behind climate trends however, the massive alterations in atmospheric chemistry have overwhelmed the natural processes to the point where about 97% of climate scientists agree that our present climate has been altered.

as for that second assumption, can you quote the theory of Rapid Global Climate Shift and show us where it says we are "all" going to be subject to floods. Sounds more of a biblical paranoia than any of the theories I've heard of.

cheers
B

PS
Bio-fuels specifically algae based bio-diesel is projected to cost ~$2 at the pump once it gets rolling. 15+ start ups many with billions in capital cant all be wrong. Something tells me the world with react very well to alternative fuels once they realize that the production curve means it gets cheaper over time rather than more expensive. at least for the first few decades that is. Thats just with the natural species, wait till those guys get a hold of engineered algae and watch the production boom. Kiss petroleum based fuel goodbye and good riddance. The beneficiaries of the present paradigm will fight to maintain it but in the face of diminishing resources that result in war's the obvious alternatives are going to become more and more popular until eventually they begin to make a difference. Lets just hope its not to late for our delicate environment.

peace out
WMO is free fuel and its recycling

 

I see a mixture of bio diesel talk and environmental talk here as well as some talk about solar.

I feel obliged to point out that over the years, solar is the more environmentally friendly option, compared to putting carbon-based byproduct into the air to support creature comforts every day.

Might I strongly suggest a properly sized solar array for the retirement boat just so you can contribute less to global warming?

 

I considered a solar array right up until I began calculating two things. The cost of the panels vs there degradation over time and the cost of the peripheral supporting systems. Very pricey as compared to almost anything else. a one kilowatt system is in the range of $20,000. Thats a lot of bio-diesel. Just the 4 panels 270 w each in a 1 kw system would cost in the range of $3200, which is about the same as a 7 kw diesel gen set from Yanmar (10 hp). Or 7x the cost and thats just the panels, throw in all the other junk and the numbers get ugly fast. The Yanmy comes complete at $3500 push a button and plug in your stuff. Imagine all the fuel 17000 could buy, then imagine all the free oil 17000 could filter. My gwod man I'd be swimming in fuel for life.

The second consideration is the energy payback time, these systems take quite a bit of energy to create in the first place.

4 ~ 6.5 years to break even just in terms of energy alone on just the panels, not including there distribution costs or the energy cost of the peripheral equipment, nor does it account for any maintenance or for a drop in efficiency of ~2% a year over the life of the panel. It also assumes maximum output and conditions.

http://www.csudh.edu/oliver/smt310-handouts/solarpan/pvpayback.htm

on the other hand I can burn a carbon neutral fuel for free in a converted/recycled diesel engine and for penny's on the dollar be up and running.

in a nutshell as it sits solar panels are for the rich and famous. Bio-diesel is the common mans fuel of the future. I'll burn waste oils until it becomes more easily available and even then I might just continue blending my own ( more powerful and cleaner fuel at that ) for free.

While I agree that the over the active life span of the panel its putting out zilch in terms of CO2 it did eat some significant resources to produce and more to maintain its peripheral systems. On the other hand old diesel engines are everywhere, cost nothing to bring back to service and can burn carbon neutral fuels thus adding zero to the problem.

I'm thinking that algae based bio-diesel will be readily available in the next few years and until then I can just blend my own right here in the back yard and save a few bucks towards the retirement build. I see your point but there's a lot more to it that just the panels converting sunshine.

cheers
B

My WMO filter set up consists of a couple of recycled 1/4 hp DC motors running a geared pump head into two rock strainers ( 40 microns ) then through two 20 micron filters then two more 1~10 micron filters and then on to the centrifuge ( 1/10 ~ 1 micron ). Stuff ends up cleaner than when it was new. and it costs me less than $400 to set up. Filters will cost me about $50 a change and I should get about 10,000 gallons per set which I'm conservatively estimating at 1/10 the manufacturers recommended interval between changes. I'll watch the feed pressure and use that to judge when its best to swap filters. In the end I'll build a WVO filter system as well but for now the most cost effective alternative fuel is WMO that was headed to the land fill anyway.

 

I mostly agree with your figures. I calculated the same 7 year payback period where the initial investment in solar panels finally paid off and was less money than a generator.

Where do you get $20,000 for 4 solar panels, a charge controller and the batteries you will already have on the boat no matter if you go bio-diesel or solar? Here's my calcs:

Panels: We'll go with your $3200

Powerful Xantrex Solar Charge Controller: $529
http://www.solar-electric.com/xaxwmp60amps.html

1000AH of Trojan T105 Batteries: $149ea x 10 = $1500

Wires: Well, you'll have wires with your generator too, so no need to compare.

TOTAL: Way WAY less than $20K. More like $5K Where did you get that figure?

Energy payback on the solar system vs. the engine and dynamo is a non-starter. They are most certainly equivalent in environmental cost to manufacture. But, I just reread and noticed you are using a used diesel engine, which is sort of better... just a little.

Are you saying that on your boat you will not have batteries anyway with your generator or will have many less batteries than you would have with a solar system? I might be misunderstanding your posts... you're talking about a retirement boat, right?

If so, I submit that you'll have those batteries and a 12V system no matter if you go solar or generator.

Where solar really comes into play, financially (with respect to regular diesel generators) is that after about that 7 year period (on panels with a 20 year warranty), you get free power for as long as the panels hold up. They financially kick a generator's *ss in the long run.

I know you're excited about bio-diesel and I understand the passion because I get excited in the same way about things. However... and I don't mean this as any kind of insult...

You're rationalizing carbon emissions. After all I've read in the Global Warming thread, I am quite surprised to see you doing this. Do you care about the stuff you write over in that thread, or are you just going through the motions over there? I ask because I've read a lot of your posts and enjoyed them. Why would you choose an emissions based power source over a non-emissions power source?

Despite the fact that I ask a lot of question about building hulls here, I have owned two boats with 100% solar power and lived at anchor and off the grid since about 2000. I haven't paid an electric bill in about 10 years. Yes, it is as simple as panels converting sunlight into energy. There's nothing else happening. If you need help understanding the process and how to create an environmentally sound off-grid system, I'd be happy to help.

 

I calculated the system from scratch in direct comparison to a diesel system IE primary power source

you can find a lot of my numbers over on this thread
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/these-turbine-alternaters-easy-make-26738.html

I calculated for Rolls surrette batteries which have the longest life span
a 1200 amp hour 6 volt battery is about $1300 each and comes with a 10 year guarantee
they can be discharged down to about 80% over 3000 expected cycles and have a hydrogen gas recovery system
these were one of the few batteries that could handle the discharge rate required for a fully electric system.

I believe your right and where we are getting mixed up is that I was considering elec as the primary power source and I think your thinking of it as a secondary power source. also I calculated everything including peripheral systems and motors and the like.

as far as emissions are concerned I'm all about carbon neutral
for the moment the fastest way I can get away from giving my money to the energy industry is to go with WMO. Once summer rolls around I can begin to work with WVO and from there possibly alter the vehicle enough to run the WVO year round. Thing is its not nearly as strong a fuel as the WMO Kerosene blend. So I'll have to see about new injectors or blends that help my existing injectors deal with WVO. Its only alternative it if works.

my theory is that in order to save the rain forests they had to eventually come up with a economically viable plan. Now they have eco tourism and it brings in billions. Same must happen with energy industry. The Bio-fuels co-op here is run by a bunch of stoners with zero business sense and its not really going anywhere. In other cities its pretty hard to get ahold of WVO because of its popularity but here its free for the taking. Reason is it doesn't run in the cold very well so its got to be blended, which means either diesel or some few other options. Its either run on a blend or not run at all, or pay the oil and gas industry. My logic is I'm burning waste destined for the land fill and for free while at the same time depriving the oil and gas giants of every dime I can. I'm ok with that even if I did do a bit of justifying to get to that point. This summer I'll try my hand on straight unprocessed WVO at which point I'll be as green as green gets but until things warm up its either brew bio-diesel which I am not set up to do yet or burn WMO which I am a UPS delivery away from being ready to do.

and yes
I'd love to know how you derived enough power off a panel set up to cost effectively run anything
I keep running numbers hoping to do exactly that and I keep coming up with a broken wallet

although I typically prefer traditional design's this one really caught my eye

 

Ahhhh... propulsion! Now I understand. No contest. Diesel wins that one. I had thought you were talking simply about a system to generate "house" power for your retirement boat. Whew!

I need my materials to arrive for my build so I can stay out of trouble like this!

Sorry for the mix up. Carry on! ha ha ha

 

no worries
I'm thinking wind turbines as a cheap alternative to solar panels when it comes to the house bank

 

"1000AH of Trojan T105 Batteries: $149ea x 10 = $1500"

Try Sams club , should be about $85.

"I calculated for Rolls surrette batteries which have the longest life span
a 1200 amp hour 6 volt battery is about $1300 each and comes with a 10 year guarantee"

Actually they are guaranteed for about 3 years for replacement IF YOU DIDN'T KILL THEM.

After that you "pay" a percentage per year so on 9 year old batts they will cost 90% of the replacement cost, if you have 10% left.

Solar Blems can be had today for about $1.20a watt , and as the Gov insanity of picking winners and subsidizing failure ends , the price should fall well under a buck.

Then if they could just move the decimal point one more place , Solar would begin to be practical.

Wind has the hassle that most folks will try to anchor in a bay , to get away from the wind , and wind generated waves.

Ocean anchoring is an art in it self as is ocean shore access.

Wind machines are still quite noisy so anchoring near other cruisers will win no friends , and perhaps a 12G blast of your noisemaker while ashore.

FF

 

ya the horizontal axis wind turbines are pretty noisy but the vertical axis ones are dam near silent, that and they work in a wider range of wind speeds and can be augmented by wind catching appendages that effectively double and triple there performance curves

If you go look at the page I suggested a few posts ago you can see that I calculated the recharge time for a fully elect propulsion system and its prohibitive at best but using VAWT as a secondary charging system is just as feasible as solar and its lots cheaper

cheers
B