Best place in the world to build a 30-35 ft sailboat on a budget?

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by frasco, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hans Klaar built two Polynesian style double canoes with crab claw rig, Ontong Java and later Ontong Java II, on the beach near Banjul in Gambia West Africa, the built of the 72' Ontong Java II took four months to sail away, that was in 2012 . . :cool:

    Thread: Ontong Java II by Hans Klaar, most pictures are gone there, and most links are dead, post #29 + 30 + 38 have some still working links...

    Atom Voyages ---> Hans Klaar on Building and Sailing the Polynesian style Double Canoe Ontong Java2

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    ‘‘ Hans with the Ontong Java II hulls nearly finished on day 20 ’’

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    ‘‘ Ontong Java II plus Hans and the rudders ’’

     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  2. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

  3. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thanks Richard, didn't know that, I've passed the link on to the Ontong Java II thread, post #40.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  4. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  5. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Buy as second-hand boat, mate... 'Build for cheap', for custom project, is a myth.
     
    rwatson and Angélique like this.
  6. frasco
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    frasco Junior Member

    That's so cool, thanks for sharing!

    Yeah that seems pretty much like what I would be aiming for. :cool:

    That's what people keep saying, but then I also keep seeing these extravagant projects with all these details and equipment, impressive cabinetry, loads of varnish, brand new sails, dozens of through-hulls (and whatever equipment they are there for) etc. I have no need for most of that stuff. People also say building the hull is only 20% of the job of building a boat. Hull, rudder, rig, ground tackle, a bunk or two, some storage space, stove... if you don't extend that list much further than that and stay away from trying to make everything look like something from a boat show I think you should be fine. Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy fancy stuff as well but what I'm aiming for here is something more focused on being functional.

    Also, I didn't say cheap, my wording was "build a boat, for as little money as possible", not that it would necessarily be cheaper than buying.

    Furthermore, having built your own boat puts you in a unique position to troubleshoot and repair any issues that might come up.
     
  7. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I agree that ‘‘cheap’’ often has a negative connotation, but its prime meaning from the Oxford living dictionaries in English is; ‘‘Low in price, especially in relation to similar items or services.*’’ only far later comes; ‘‘Inexpensive because of inferior quality.’’ and ‘‘Of little worth because achieved in a discreditable way requiring little effort.’’ hence the negative connotation the word often has.

    For me, I've meant it in the first sense on the previous page (2th ¶ in post #12), and I'll suspect this applies to everyone who used the word in this regard on this thread, so I don't think it was meant anywhere on this thread in a negative sense.

    * some example sentences of ‘‘cheap’’ in a positive sense: ‘‘Local buses were reliable and cheap.’’ - - ‘‘It is a relatively small price to pay, however, for the abundance of cheap beer, divine chocolate eclairs and great restaurants he enjoys throughout Sofia.’’ - - ‘‘The service this offers is cheap, safe and allows clients to remain at a distance until they are convinced they are in touch with someone they really want to meet.’’ - - ‘‘Wireless Internet service is a cheap and viable connectivity option.’’

    I hope this clarifies . . :)

    P.S.

    Here's the prime definition of ‘‘cheap’’ from the Oxford living dictionaries in USA English; ‘‘(of an item for sale) low in price; worth more than its cost.’’

    And here's from the thesaurus of the Oxford living dictionaries a quote of the prime synonyms of ‘‘cheap’’ in general English; ‘‘inexpensive, low-priced, low-price, low-cost, economical, economic, competitive, affordable, reasonable, reasonably priced, moderately priced, keenly priced, budget, economy, cheap and cheerful, bargain, cut-rate, cut-price, half-price, sale-price, sale, reduced, on special offer, marked down, discounted, discount, rock-bottom, giveaway’’ I'll think most of these main synonyms have a positive connotation . . :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  8. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    If you don't define what kind of quality you mean there then it's a meaningless post, since e.g. the quality of gloss finish adds nothing to the quality in longevity of the boat or the quality in seaworthiness and safety.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  9. frasco
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    frasco Junior Member

    Haha thanks for the clarification Angélique.

    There's a good book about the concept of quality being hard of impossible to define in the first place. Memorable passage was when the author's friend/acquaintance was flabbergasted by the author suggesting to repair the loose handlebars of his motorbike with pieces from a beer can. He would've rather paid for a commercial piece of aluminium which would've been essentially the same. The thought of repairing his motorbike with a beer can was unfathomable to him.

    I just hope to be able to put the argument of buying used boats to rest by having already bought two at this point, and am through that convinced that the only way to get what I really want would be to build my own. I'm not looking to get it cheaper than dirt, but I'm looking at the prospect of leaving a currently well-paying job to pursue my dream, and I would not like to spend 70% of my savings on rent and labor cost in order to do that. Hence the quest for low cost of living, accommodation and materials.

    To change the subject a bit, since the boats in question have mostly been sharpies (or modified), how easily would the designs in general be translated to be built out of planking (for example Angélique in Suriname or French Guiana as suggested) instead of plywood? More mass and more weight I assume? Might need to consult a naval architect? I.e. not a drop-in replacement?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  10. frasco
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    frasco Junior Member

    Also, on another tangent, Marchaj claimed the crab claw rig had superior windward performance but no one was apparently able to reproduce his measurements, has this changed?
     
  11. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    I'm old fashioned, I prefer to let someone else bear the cost of building a yacht new then pick it up when it needs some TLC which is always cheaper than whatever the first guy paid. I know... boat builders hate me.... :cool:
     
  12. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Tad Roberts' shallow draft affordable bluewater cruiser series, aka future cruisers, are designed to be strip planked and can be build for the lowest price anywhere where the trees grow and the lumber is cut into strips on a sawmill in the vicinity, the yard of the sawmill would be a good place to build I think, if granted to do so, perhaps you could buy the lumber in advance and dry it there too, maybe in a tent, see below...

    Tad's Future Cruisers: - 28' - - 38' - - 44' mk II

    28'​
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    38'​
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    44' mk II​
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    Here some comments on Tad's future cruiser designs by Bob Wise* on his Boat Bits blog, and here's an earlier chat by Bob with Tad.

    * Builder and owner + skipper + ocean crosser in various Bolger designs, from a 26' Jessie Cooper up to the first ever AS 39, all or most being called Loose Moose (LM).

    When building in a warm area, best build a tent I'll think, to protect from the sun or rain, whatever appears, like Reuel Parker does on his builds in the south of Florida...

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    Before midsummer Reuel usually shrink-wraps the build and leaves for Main, and resumes construction when it's less hot. (thread: Parker Marine still in business ?)

    Good luck !
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  13. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Angélique (PDF) is excellent wood, but it could be too heavy to use for the hull skin plus deck and cabin and cockpit of the standard design of the in post #27 mentioned future cruisers, as they were designed with the much lighter Western Red Cedar in mind (clear = free of knots).

    Best ask Tad about this if want to know more about the usability of other woods for his Future Cruiser designs.

    P.S. - I'll send Tad a PM, maybe he wants to chime in about this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  14. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018

  15. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Chudnoff, Martin. 1984. Tropical Timbers of the World. USDA Forest Service. Ag. Handbook No. 607. - 464 Book pages / 470 PDF pages

    In windows I use the search function (hit the keys ‘‘Ctrl’’ and ‘‘f ’’ simultaneously) to find specific wood species in the book's PDF, but give this some time as a lot of computers need a few seconds to search through the whole book.

    Individual pages from the book can be grabbed from this background index, but it mentions only scientific names, so that's hard to start with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
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