Best Marine Design Software for Hull Modeling? (2008-09)

Discussion in 'Software' started by Admin, Apr 8, 2008.

?

Which program(s) do you use as your primary hull design software?

  1. Autoship (Autoship Systems Corporation)

    13 vote(s)
    6.2%
  2. Catia

    9 vote(s)
    4.3%
  3. DefCar (DefCar Engineering)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Delftship

    28 vote(s)
    13.4%
  5. Fastship (Proteus Engineering)

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  6. HullCAO (HullCAO)

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  7. Hull Form (Blue Peter Marine Systems)

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  8. Maxsurf (Formation Design Systems)

    59 vote(s)
    28.2%
  9. MultiSurf (Aerohydro)

    10 vote(s)
    4.8%
  10. Naval Designer

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  11. Prolines (Vacanti Yacht Design)

    4 vote(s)
    1.9%
  12. ProSurf (New Wave Systems)

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  13. Rhino (Robert McNeel & Assoc.)

    53 vote(s)
    25.4%
  14. SeaSolution

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. TouchCAD

    5 vote(s)
    2.4%
  16. Other (please post below)

    18 vote(s)
    8.6%
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  1. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    3dyachts, go here to download http://freeship-plus.pisem.su/indexEN.html - - - from there, click on <Support> then <Downloads> to get a page with lots of download options... I use Release version FREE!ship Plus : 2.9+
    File Size: 3,9 MB
    Release Date: March 22, 2008

    For Freeship 2.6, which seems popular, it may be available as a free offering from the "DelftShip" site.... else do a search of this forum....

    Have fun....
     
  2. 3dyachts
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Saigon

    3dyachts Senior Yacht Designer

    Hi Malasai,

    Thanks for the attention and the link, but we already use a few hi-end hull design softwares.

    I have known Freeship since its beginning, but it is not an industry standard. Very good for students though, as a free approach to other 3D design softwares. Delftship, in the other hand, is becoming rapidly very popular, and a few yards are already using it.

    But then: did I miss that Fastship was actually in this llist or did it just appear???...well: I may need new specticles ...!!! Then, Fastship would have my preference: practically unlimited, rather cheap, doing very fair surfaces but also capable of any complexity, easy to learn, and natively interfaced with one of the best VPPs. I would not recommend Fastyacht though, who has too many limitations.
     
  3. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 6,823
    Likes: 120, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1882
    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Ahhhh, sorry, my erratic speed reading? - - thought it may have been a typo, but now I look different package altogether....

    Pity that the products do not have links embedded.... I am just a hobbyist, and apart from getting the concept outline - the rest is for the professionals, as is the build when I am sorted/ready....
     
  4. rteng97
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
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    Location: Canada

    rteng97 Junior Member

    Basically any softwares that handle Nurbs well can be used for hull design. Just my 2 cents for a few softwares that I have used.

    Fastship: give you basical hull modeling tools. but it doesn't have many commands to handle Nurbs. The Brep defintion (if you can a brep in fastship) is very primitive. Good for small yards. Please note that proteus engineering is sold to Alian, and all the key guys for developing fastship are fired (no idea why, maybe too expensive, my wild guess), so future support may be an issues. You can forget the future enhancement of this product.

    Cadds5: is already dead, few support from India site. Nurbs functions are the best in my opinion, the kernel functions are better than ACIS or ParaSolid. But it is very clumsy to use, I think it is still an Unix baby. So hardware is also an issue. Some customers have used for modeling hulls, but not many as Cadds5 is not intented to be used for hull design, you certainly can use Nurbs tools in Cadds5 to do hull design. Supports? you must be very patient.

    Catia, I have never heard or seen anyone using CATIA for hull surface. But they have more money than God has, so Catia will be the dominant player for sure. They have worked with USA navy for ship design, now they want buy FE softwares.

    Rhino3D, it is very good tool to design small things. The geometric kernels are not good. E.g, if you create a deck that 20 meter long and touch a bulkhead, now you want to move the bulkhead (5 meter high, a normal frigate size) 7mm (plate thickness) forward, so you have to trim the deck for 7mm. Please note that the deck is not totally planar surface. Most of time, rhino3d can't do it (v4).
     
  5. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 547
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 138
    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    "Rhino3D, it is very good tool to design small things. The geometric kernels are not good. E.g, if you create a deck that 20 meter long and touch a bulkhead, now you want to move the bulkhead (5 meter high, a normal frigate size) 7mm (plate thickness) forward, so you have to trim the deck for 7mm. Please note that the deck is not totally planar surface. Most of time, rhino3d can't do it (v4)"

    trim won't work if the trimming/boundary object does not crosses or intersect all over the length of the other surface. that's in all softwares (only if the software automatically extends the boundary of the trimming).
     
  6. rteng97
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Canada

    rteng97 Junior Member

    "trim won't work if the trimming/boundary object does not crosses or intersect all over the length of the other surface. that's in all softwares (only if the software automatically extends the boundary of the trimming)." I am sure the objects intersect each others.
     
  7. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 547
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 138
    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    interesting, can you upload the copy of the file just the deck and the bhd?
     
  8. rteng97
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Canada

    rteng97 Junior Member

    I wish I could help you, but all the data related with the project are classified.
    I am really sorry about this, but the problem really give me a lot of headache, Instead of using 7mm, I have to use 10mm, then it works. I guess that the 7mm or 5mm is too small for Rhino3d. I think you can cut any hull surface with such small steps to repeat the problems. It is quite possible that our hull surface (created from a contract company) is not good modeled, but Once you start the structure modeling, hull surface is freezed, normally you can't updated the hull surface any more.
     
  9. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 547
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 138
    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    That's was my guess i find such problem sometimes and i usually export the surface to a Nurb file "flavor" and re import the surface but for what i have seen has more to do with the imported surfaces than rhino, not that rhino is prefect Rhino V3 -4 are a brand new code (Rhino V2 is used to be different core) are you working on the new Ice breaker? are you in Victoria?
     
  10. 3dyachts
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Saigon

    3dyachts Senior Yacht Designer

    QUOTE=rteng97
    Basically any softwares that handle Nurbs well can be used for hull design. Just my 2 cents for a few softwares that I have used.
    If you don't mind my other two cents: When you say "can be used", you are right...but that no-way means that it will be good at it.

    Fastship: give you basical hull modeling tools. but it doesn't have many commands to handle Nurbs. The Brep defintion (if you can a brep in fastship) is very primitive. Good for small yards. Please note that proteus engineering is sold to Alian, and all the key guys for developing fastship are fired (no idea why, maybe too expensive, my wild guess), so future support may be an issues. You can forget the future enhancement of this product.
    You can B-rep in fastship V6....but I agree it does not do it well, to say the least! In the other hand, what is does very well, unlike what you say, is NURBS modeling: I do not have it anymore in my library, but I did as a test, years ago (with Fastship 5 at the time) a very highly detailed face, with eyelids and lips. Hundreds of controls! It is not designed for that will you say - sure - but for hulls, and that where it excels and is why it has been used by major yards (Keppel Singapore being one: supertankers: no baby yard nor baby ships) until recent years where other more capable softwares are now preferred....but this thread is for cheap ones, isn't it? And Rhino Marine bundle that comes with Fastship is hard to beat price-wise!

    Cadds5: is already dead, few support from India site. Nurbs functions are the best in my opinion, the kernel functions are better than ACIS or ParaSolid. But it is very clumsy to use, I think it is still an Unix baby. So hardware is also an issue. Some customers have used for modeling hulls, but not many as Cadds5 is not intented to be used for hull design, you certainly can use Nurbs tools in Cadds5 to do hull design. Supports? you must be very patient.
    agreed: forget it!

    Catia, I have never heard or seen anyone using CATIA for hull surface. But they have more money than God has, so Catia will be the dominant player for sure. They have worked with USA navy for ship design, now they want buy FE softwares.
    Catia is capable of hull design although it was not designed for that. As well, if we are talking about "cheap"....hum: 2.000$/ month/ station is no way cheap! In what seems to be your trade (CAM), combinations like Catia/ Solidworks (all Dassault Systems), or also Multisurf (excellent hull design!), or also Shipconstructor are the right choice....but it all costs quite some!!!

    Rhino3D, it is very good tool to design small things. The geometric kernels are not good. E.g, if you create a deck that 20 meter long and touch a bulkhead, now you want to move the bulkhead (5 meter high, a normal frigate size) 7mm (plate thickness) forward, so you have to trim the deck for 7mm. Please note that the deck is not totally planar surface. Most of time, rhino3d can't do it (v4).
    I am afraid that your description is not very clear, or I misunderstand it, but anyway Rhino can offset (if that is what you are talking about) a large non-flat surface like your deck (>20m) by 7mm -or less, and extend or trim a bulkhead to it. You can even make this bulkhead a "solid" of whatever thickness and have it's edge following the inner side of the hull and deck...if you really need that! Then, I would say that Rhino is anyway not the best tool for structure design aimed at CAM either, and the here-above mentioned (expensive) softwares better suited. Rhino is specially unable to flatten a curved surface accurately (for CAM) nor do a....fair hull design of any complexity or strict geometry, which is actually the subject of this thread

    Well, it all depends of what you need: there is not one suit that fits all!!!
     
  11. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 547
    Likes: 9, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 138
    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    Without sounding like a fanboy (I'm still using Rhino V2) rhino has proven that can do any type of complex surfacing (yes i understand all that "A" class surfacing that rhino can't handle) and is used for CAM years ago there was an idea that rhino was not able to handle or being useful for some of what you are mentioned but it has proved how usefull and complete it is, there are a lot of companies using rhino to Mill 3D for the marine industry, yes rhino is not the best, the best depends on what budget you have so you can maximize your inversion but there is no doubt rhino is capable of play with the high end software (in some areas) lot's has to do with the user and how you model 3D many hulls has been designed with rhino

    I will speculate that Shipcam or Shipconstructor "pulled" his plug in for plate developing from rhino becouse rhino was runing over shipcam sales again not because it was the best but i guess becouse the results and cost was probably better than invest on shipcam.

    And you are right there is not one that fits all
     
  12. rteng97
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
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    Location: Canada

    rteng97 Junior Member

    I use rhino3d a lot. I made a mistake that I went into specific details as this is not this thread intends do go.

    To be fair, Rhino3d is the best for the price you have paid. But I don't think Rhino3d use ACIS or Parasolid as geom. kernel, normally high end product nowdays alway use one of them as Geom. Kernel, company like Intergraph, it has geom. kernel, but it still use ACIS as geom. kernel for their SmartMarine ( or Intelliship). In this respect, I suspect that Rhino3d geom. kernel may not be strong. But if Rhino3d use ACIS or Parasolid, then price will be totally different.

    The problem with model is that the user will focus what you can't do. When you use Rhino to create model, everything is fine except a bulkhead can't be created, you will get big troubles. You will spend a lot of time to correct that.

    ShipCam or ShipConstructor is different thing. I will write more about what my impression when I got time. They stop support plate developing function for Rhino v4. But solid3dtech can fill the gap. Solid3dtech also works on AutoCAD, so you can develop any surfaces based on AutoCAD, even surface with double curvatures. It works fine for us.

    By the way, I am in East Canada, the best place on earth to live.
     
  13. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 547
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    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    The best place to live on earth is somewhere in a warm place :)

    Do you work for fleetway? I have good friends working there, thanks for the Solid3DTech tip i'll have a look at it have you used it a lot?
     
  14. rteng97
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
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    Location: Canada

    rteng97 Junior Member

    Warm place, ok, I agree. but not so many rain, right? With global warming, Halifax will be vancouver soon.

    No, not fleetway. That reminds me the tribon, fleetway use tribon. Actually the no. 1 software used is tribon, Aver has bought tribon, not sure what happens to them.

    Another good one is Naba from Finland, I have heard that they are very good, but I never used it.

    As to Solid3dTech, I think it is a startup, they just put their product into download.com not long ago. We use it, it works fine for far. Good thing about small fish is that you can ask for something, they respond you very fast.
     

  15. shellexpansion
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 17
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    Location: canada

    shellexpansion Junior Member

    "Another good one is Naba from Finland, I have heard that they are very good, but I never used it."

    here is a typo. It is NAPA.
     
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