cheap build without cheap look (I think)

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by 300wm, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. 300wm
    Joined: Jul 2014
    Posts: 56
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 66
    Location: Port Charlotte, Florida

    300wm Junior Member

    Hello small boat builders (and everyone else). I am new to this forum and wanted to share my first small boat build. This was an extreme budget build 'cause we are strapped for $$$. but I had to get back on the water.

    The yak is built from BC grade 1/4" ply and 1"x2" fir strips. No other wood was used. It is 16' 9" and 23" wide. Weight is a whopping 98lbs which is 10 lbs over my target weight, and that includes the seat, but not the rod holders or rigging (not on yet, but will add about 3 total lbs). I didn't use any resin or glass on it, anywhere, but I do have a trim molding on the hull side of the bow and stern to help keep shell shock to a minimum. It has 5 total bulkheads to which two will be for storage once I finish the hatch covers. Other than three coats of thinned Kilz exterior primer (latex) and two medium coats of Behr Premium Plus hi gloss 100% acrylic latex, that's it.

    After adding up all the receipts, the total $$ came to $242.53, but that does not include the paddle and the spray skirt, both of which I got at WM for around $60.

    It is very stable, and seems to be fast enough. I covered 8.2 miles last weekend at just over two hours, but to be honest, that was with a little effort. If I had had a little more water, I think I could have gotten right at two hrs. Since it has no rocker, everything I read about a long yak with no rocker came true, true, and true. It is a bear to turn around. I use it in the harbor, a lot, but there have been a few times where a little rocker would have helped (some engineering in school would have helped, as well). At any rate, enough about me boat...here it is:

    photo 1.JPG

    photo 2.JPG

    photo 3.JPG

    eta - BTW, the yellow and black accent strips are Rustoleum out of a can. Only took about three rolls and 6 Sunday news papers. :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum.
    Your boat looks very nice.
    I assume it was a home design?

    Did you glue the ply to the frame?
    If not it might be easy to modify it to have some rocker.

    Next time try 1/8" ply door skins and smaller frame pieces. More delicate but it would be worth it.

    We need to introduce you to Skin on Frame.
    A 18' double was right at 60#.
    A 17' single was 36#.
    Take a look at yostwerks.com

    I know having done one you will need another as soon as you can, its a disease most of us have. :D
     
  3. 300wm
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: Port Charlotte, Florida

    300wm Junior Member

    Thanks. I wanted to introduce myself, earlier, but couldn't figure out how to copy and post a pic.

    It is glued and screwed. I was going to do a stitch and glue, but I couldn't find a 17' kit in my price range. Not knowing how well BC 1/4" would stand up to the surf here in FL, I went extreme in the bulk heads and frame work. I see where I easily could have saved 15lbs, in retrospect. I am going to give this one to my wife and do another of similar design (yes, btw, it's a home made design I kinda came up with on the fly), but with lighter wood and two less bulk heads. I will build a little rocker into it, as well, as I can figure that in without too much complication. I can do big and straight with no problems, and have a lot of resin and glass experience, but that is with stuff that came out of a mold or was just getting repaired. At any rate, I agree...it is addicting, and I find myself wanting to work on something now that this one is done.
     
  4. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: nation of Ohio

    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Greetings,

    Boat looks good. Is there any flare? Think it would be just great without it since its so thin and that way you gain maximum stability.

    Wondering where your verification of "no rocker" characteristics came from.
     
  5. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    The important thing is that you finished it and it works... Congratulations. That's more than most people manage.

    If you introduce a little flare into your next design, the rocker should take care of itself. Keep us posted.
     
  6. 300wm
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: Port Charlotte, Florida

    300wm Junior Member

    No flare at all. It is 90 degree angles bow to stern. Honestly, I'm a champagne taste guy with beer pockets, and no kind of design schooling. That is why it doesn't have flare for the most part. Looking at the 'Epic' line of kayaks, they just looked like they would do in the water what I wanted a boat to do, but I didn't have the knowledge to build something like that, therefore, I went with the 'pine wood coffin' look. Very easy to build in my den and I knew the boat would have a similar performance to the Epic boats when cruising or when in the surf. I was actually surprised by the lack of draft it has with my 180 lbs in it (just under 2"). So, there really is no design reasoning for no flare other than not having enough knowledge and needing the deck to be as thin as possible.

    What I'd really like on my next boat is maybe going to a 22" wide hull/deck with a small amount of rocker and no flare, but having the back of the boat more pointed so it creates less turbulence. It seems like when I'm cruising at a good rate, there is so much turbulence that it feels as though it is dragging, and I know the bow isn't lifting 'cause I can actually see that it is splitting the water about three inches high. I would imagine the 90 degree angles also create some drag, but with how well it goes in smooth water, it is a good trade off to not having the build knowledge. I can do a mile in 12.5 minutes without even breaking a sweat, so I've got to be pretty close.

    Thanks for the reply. BTW, I had to look 'flare' up to even know what you were talking about. I may be on the wrong forum (hehehe).
     
  7. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    If you want an easy plywood build with a more modern shape you could lookat yostwerks.com for the SeaCruiser. About the same dimensions as the boat you built.
    This link shows the boat built as a aluminum frame, plastic skin take apart, but you could look at the wood frame construction and just use ply for the skin.
    http://yostwerks.com/SeaBear2.html
    This one has long overhangs on each end, not my choice, but there are others to look at.
    Here are the lines: http://yostwerks.com/SeaCruiserSpecs3.html
    Check out making the frame here:http://yostwerks.com/WoodSOFFrameMenu.html
    The frame would not need to be so heavy, just good enough to set the shape and allow you to trace the shape of each panel on ply.
     
  8. 300wm
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: Port Charlotte, Florida

    300wm Junior Member

    Those are great. Never saw them, before. Thanks.
     
  9. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Another option that is between door skin and 1/4" ply is sub flooring at 3/16". I've heard that it is made with water proof/resistant glue, but have no proof to back up the claim. I've used it on a couple of proof of concept designs without problems.....yet. Look for the five ply stuff and not the three ply. For your deck though, if you want a nice arched deck, the door skin will be much more flexible.

    All of my kayaks are s&g and lightly sheathed with fiberglass. A 12 footer came in at almost 36 lbs. It was built with 4mm marine ply. I did a 10 footer with the sub floor. It was around 40 lbs. I also did a 7 1/2 footer trying to do a single sheet concept. I was able to complete it at 26 lbs.

    Good luck with your designing. It does get under your skin.
     
  10. 300wm
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: Port Charlotte, Florida

    300wm Junior Member

    Yea, I already have two 1/8 scale models going together for the next two that I do. One has a round deck like you mention and one is like in the pics, but with a more traditional shape and coaming placement. It's as if I got kayak brain, now. I just bought a new street bike back in Jan and can't quit working on kayak stuff long enough to ride it. :D
     
  11. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    It would be interesting to see it actually floating with someone in it. It looks like it might float low in the stern.
     
  12. 300wm
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: Port Charlotte, Florida

    300wm Junior Member

    To look at it in the pics, I agree, but the first two feet of the bow is nothing but a bow skeg. It really doesn't start to displace any water until about 2.5 feet from the tip of the bow. With the first yak I tried (a 12 footer), it had a lot of bow sway when paddling. I wanted none, so that's why I did the first two feet more pointed. I actually put the weight of the deck (before I attached it) fore and aft, centralized, so I knew exactly where to put the coaming with me sitting in it. By itself in the water, it is nose heavy...1.5" draft with the stern at 3/4". With me sitting in it against a non adjustable seat, it is a perfect, almost 2" draft bow to stern. Because there is nothing here but a choppy harbor and a wide river with constant tide movement, I thought this would be the best way to go, as a beginner, anyways.

    I want to post some water pics as soon as I can get someone with a cam to go with me (like a daughter or a wife). No one is keen on the idea since it's approaching 100 degrees, every day. :)
     
  13. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    I'm trying to imagine your bow skeg. That could be part of your turning issue. I typically will go with a more conventional skeg at the stern. The one on the 7 1/2 footer is quite large, but it keeps it going in a straight line. I don't know if your "bow sway" is yawing due to paddle strokes or a tracking concern. I've found that a kayak is going to wander on heading without some sort of a skeg to keep it going straight. They also tend to reduce the yawing associated with paddle strokes. It doesn't take much skeg to get it sorted out and I believe the aft skeg will be less resistant to your turning efforts.

    Here is the link to my 12' kayak build.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wo...ration/mysticshore-12-gets-started-39315.html

    I think it is post 23 that has the photo of the skeg.
     
  14. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    When you do your next models, put a bit of a 'slant' in the sides.

    It will create a little bit of 'rocker' ( curve from bow to stern ) into the design, and make it easier to turn, as well as putting some slant into the stems.

    Mind you, once you have built a proper stitch and glue design, you will kick yourself over how easy it is to build a properly design kayak, and how much better the commercial design works.

    I know, I have been there.
     

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  15. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I just remembered a guy who has been building his own designs - sailboats, but out of plywood.
    You really need to browse thru his many boats, and different constructions.
    You might find something to inspire you.

    http://www.diy-tris.com/
     
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