Bedini motor and other joe cell playing with energy conservation

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by kistinie, May 3, 2009.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thank you mydauphin for this valuable explanation.

    And thank you kerosene that you will provide a link! I have built boats out of it, so I know a little about that material already.
    What I did not know is, that the energy spent to produce Aluminium is stored in the metal and can be recycled to propel a boat!
    A very interesting (unfortunately a very childish and in terms of physics wrong) theory.
     
  2. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,285
    Likes: 203, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    I didn't say - or mean to say anyway - that all energy used in mining could be recovered. What I am saying that it is no surprise that you can recover energy from turning Al to Al-oxides. And that everyone should understand that this is not feasible or "free" energy.

    You seem to through away insults more than anything Apex - that really makes it hard to understand what your point is and who you are addressing.

    My point in short is - wasting aluminum in hydrogen production seems pointless considering how much energy is spent in getting that said aluminum in the 1st place.

    As the article talking about aluminum in hydrogen stated it pretty clearly:

    "However, the cost of aluminum could be reduced by recycling it from the alumina using a process called fused salt electrolysis. The aluminum could be produced at competitive prices if the recycling process were carried out with electricity generated by a nuclear power plant or windmills."

    ie. when you use aluminum to create hydrogen you need to use elctrolysis (powered by something else) to recover said aluminum.
     
  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You´re right kerosene in addressing alu as one of the greatest energy consumers (destroyers), but we have no substitution at present.
    I understood your statement above as if you would say the energy spent equals the energy we can get out of it. You should edit that post to be understood better. Yes I have no problem to call a Idiot by his name you´re right, but that I spread insults more than anything, definetily is a wrong statement, this forum can widely tell you the opposite! It´s Kistinie and his fairy tales crap that brings me on edge.
    Regards
    Richard
    and this addition was worth to be noticed, I agree!:
    "My point in short is - wasting aluminum in hydrogen production seems pointless considering how much energy is spent in getting that said aluminum in the 1st place."
     
  4. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,285
    Likes: 203, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    all right - I added "all" in bold to my previous post.

    I am sure you have provided useful input in other threads - I only remember your posts from these HHO - magic hydrogen ones. Lets try fresh - I apologize for blaming you from being all name calling.

    And to be honest I think we are on the same side of the argument - most of the hydrogen talk is optimistic at best - and clear scams at worst.

    The fools are in between - the ones who believe the scams in good faith but don't understand the problems in basic premise.

    I have seen many people explain how one can run a car with 20Amp 12vdc powered electrolysis pot (joe cell) but also explain that it is not perpetual motion machine as the joe cell needs that electricity.
    If one cannot understand that using 240w power to create energy to drive 50kw (or more) engine is against physics then education has failed.

    BUT I don't think calling people by names is productive either- better to try to explain the reasons why this is not possible - at least confused bystanders will understand why its nonsense.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You´re right it is´nt productive to call them by names, and I did not mean to be productive. This chap is nerving the Forum with his unmature ideas and statements of energy for free and similar crap since month. I contributed in a severe and polite manner to some of his former threads, he did not even read the articles he was lead to, but argued that we did provide critics only and nothing constructive.
    How can one be constructive if he is told that all he does is only to make a fortune overnight and to destroy the environment. And the like.
    Sorry that my harsh way of reply to Kistines posts did insult you, that was not meant this way.
    And as a addition: I found a old post that sometimes should be brought up to remember (for me as well, I know)! see:

     
  6. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,161
    Likes: 53, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    There is a group of bizarre people here that wish the universe was different than it is. They wish boats could fly by anti-gravity using multi-dimensional wornholes. Some free energy believers are also anti-establishment and are trying to make political statements. This forum is for people to learn and share information about boats and ship building, design and cruising... not science fiction.

    I love sci-fi, I love weird science, I love cutting edge...
    But we live in planet earth - tell me no lies or ******** or you will get a fight....
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    aluminum is a horrible choice as a fuel source
    the embodied energy of aluminum being one of the highest of any metal

    [​IMG]

    now I know why the flicker did not mention the type of metal being used
    they are trying to present themselves as being environmentally responsible and presenting an alternative and superior fuel source

    if the process described above is being used by anybody thinking they are doing the world a favor
    they are dead wrong

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I would urge all of you to please consider the whole system when choosing not only a fuel but a material to derive that fuel from

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    as for availability we need to also consider a simple reality

    while there are various ways to measure embodied energy

    it is not a mater or debate as the the extremely high cost of aluminum

    as a fuel source
    aluminum is second only to petroleum in its potential to destroy the environment
    any fuel system that consumes aluminum as a mater of coarse
    is not a viable replacement to fossil fuels
    no mater what the good intentions of the inventor may have been
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Kistinie:
    Forum reply:
    not possible

    Kistinie:

    Forum reply:
    no, you must not forget battery, inverter, controller and the like!

    Kistinie:

    Forum reply:

    buy one

    Kistinie:
    Forum reply:

    no, that is not possible, you destroy the manifold in hours by injecting saltwater.

    Kistinie:

    My reply:

    Idiot
     
  9. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 493
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -74
    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    "A lie told often enough becomes accepted truth." : Vladimir Lenin
    Is this the reason of your repetitions ?

    When you "quote" me, please avoid inventions, i never complained about the fact you like me or not.
    Ideas counts in a debate, not individuals.
    Therefore, you contribute to my ideas, as you give me all the bullets to kill your corrupted devices.


    Hybrid electric propulsion will be less expensive than ICE as to make the full device you need less part, less work.
    Lowering higher actual price is only a question of industrialisation, of mass production.
    Oil will still be used, but on a sailing boat, only a third will be needed for the same service.

    About water injection in exhaust that is bringing a part of the power gain water is recycled in the exhaust (Renault patent 2005) and the first Peugeot and renault V6 engines (idiot manufacturers ?) will be equipped by the end of the year :p ...on production cars !!!

    Water will also be steamed by exhaust heat and injected to the inlet on some renault production engines exploiting the pantone principle. (But will not be named pantone !)
    Officially they say that this recycling of water is for easy use, but the true reason is only marketing and psychological, as it would make user understand an ICE runs better with water added at all the combustion stages.

    For easy marine applications you can use a water cooled manifold connected to a close circuit
    http://www.atkinsrotarymarine.com/index.php?pag=2

    For fresh water use, direct injection is fine
    On heavy boats water can be also taken from drinking water tanks.

    Please return on earth, world is moving, all this is nothing new, water injection works well whatever the way you use it ...By the way did you remember Messerschmitt Bf 109 running on methanol and water ?
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/me-109.htm

    Only new for civil applications in fact :)


    About an hybrid group going on electricity, veg oil + propane / hydrogen for propulsion and generation, light and affordable.
    The product i have designed seems to be liked by many designers, i will open a new thread to present it.
    I guess the word co generation is a mystery to you ?
    The time when heat of engine was lost is almost over.
    Heat does electricity or cold, and without belts, compressor and all these expensive and heavy add on groups just like now
    Please take a look, if you can, to a modern army co-generator


    The power of democracy is that you can't burn directly the idiots any more, you need to be smart and hide !

    ------

    Aluminium final efficiency or total overall cost isn't as good as petrol.
    And after ? Only cost counts ?

    Aluminium doesn't kill seal life like fuel when boat leaks or sink... Erika ? Remember ?
    Aluminium doesn't smell a cancerous odour inside and around my boat
    Aluminium is stable more than 4 months (petrol is given stable for 4 months only)
    Hydrogen doesn't pollute.


    So it is certainly not the best solution but AL can have a real interest for marine applications


    ---------

    Now this was the easy part of this thread ;-)


    What about this :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caLgtl2p5KM&feature=related

    What is happening here ?
    What is this movement going across the 316L steel tubes ?
     
  10. mudman
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 88
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 72
    Location: Madisonville, LA

    mudman Junior Member

    Read the comments on that video that you just posted. It will explain alot.
     
  11. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 493
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -74
    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    All kind of comments ! how do i do my selection ?
    Saying baaaahhh is not enough

    Can you be more factual and technical ?
    I accept it can be junk science but i want evidences

    In France i have worked with an university for this in Nice
    the name is ZETETIQUE
    The aim is to do the distinction between real an junk science.


    Thanks !
     
  12. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    its no big deal to mix a few chemicals and get a convection loop going during a reaction
    its not anything new

    chemicals will not save us from the present environmental disaster
    what will is an immediate reduction in population
    or an immediate reduction in eating
    take your pick
    cause were fast running out of fish and farmland
    that and the apple grown down the street was shipped round the world a few times before it gets to the market also just down the street is going to be whats the end of us

    not some crackpot free fuel that we can use to ship that apple round the planet a few more time with before it ends up where it started

    thing is fuel isnt free no mater what source it comes from
    even Tesla abandoned his research on drawing energy from the Shoeman gap for a reason everyone loves to ignore.

    its simple reality
    if you want to solve some of the worlds issues there is only one way about it
    reduce the population

    inventing "free" energy is about as helpful as chasing windmills
    Don Quixote style
     
  13. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 493
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -74
    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    We have destroyed our earth...this is a reality.

    But how do you think it is technically possible to get this convection movement across s steel ?
    Sorry but i do not get it

    I never spoke of free energy but of TOC.
    Solar panel TOC is mainly...the price you buy it
    My CITROEN ZX turbo diesel TOC is the incredible low € price i bought it and the 4.5 litre i give for 100Km plus a few things like tires, oil and insurance.
    My trimaran TOC is ...hell !!!

    Some solutions give much lower TOC than others

    My idea is to bust the best technical solution, and why not play with new solutions.
    The dark energy and dark matter is an open door to something new.

    joe cell or back EMF from Bedini, i do not care if it is an open door to something new and interesting.
    To be more precise, i do not see why we wouldn't find a way to demonstrate the dark matter anomaly on earth.

    Nothing more behind this subject.

    I am ,not an illuminated, Spinoza and René Descartes remains my favourite masters !
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Descartes
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The first proper statement you made! Thank you for that.
     

  15. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 493
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -74
    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Aaahhh !
    APEX !

    Stop playing on words and answer the question about this video
    What is the trick ?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.