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Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by WindRaf, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

  2. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Vera bellezza.
     
  3. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    "A schooner is really a cutter, with a mast in the middle of the fore triangle."

    It's really easy to make a yacht this size look good, so how's this guy's 18'ers look?
     
  5. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    PAR,
    that is not a schooner
     
  6. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

  7. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ================
    You must be kidding, right?
     
  9. WindRaf
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    my goodness....what you think? that the boats with 2 masts was invented in Canada?

    the boat of Carlo Sciarrelli IS NOT a schooner
    The historical inspiration is this:

    [​IMG]

    traditional small brigantine of Viareggio (Tuscany)
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Schooner

    By every definition the boat I was referring to in my last post is a schooner and NOT a brigantine.

    Here is one of many identical definitions* of "brigantine":

    A brigantine is a two-masted vessel with her foremast fully square rigged and her mainmast rigged with both a fore-and-aft mainsail (usually a gaff sail) and square topsails (and possibly topgallant sails).
    A vessel that fits the above definition is a true brigantine. However, today the term brigantine usually means something else, namely a vessel that is more accurately called a hermaphrodite brig, one with the foremast square rigged and the mainmast fore-and-aft rigged without any square sails.

    There is currently only one sailing true brigantine in the world, the Eye Of The Wind.

    The brigantine can be said to belong to the family of schooners; in Scandinavian languages the brigantine is sometimes referred to as a `schooner brig.'


    * found here: http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/brigantine.html
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    [​IMG]

    Windraf, you've just "dipped your hand", suggesting you're not particularly experienced or educated, at least historically. There's absolutely no question the photo (above) is a schooner and you'll quickly find complete agreement in this regard. To be precise, that's a Bermudian staysail schooner. Doug beat me to the rest of it, saving me a few more paragraphs about your other comments.

    [​IMG]

    The above might be considered a hermaphrodite brig, though not in the strictest definition, though certainly a "modern brigantine" for sure, which of course is a schooner too.

    It's pretty hard to get these antique square rigs properly identified, particularly if they've seen some "evolution", but for the most part, there's only a few categories they'll fall into anyway. Modern rigs, such as the staysail schooner above are dead bang simple to ID.
     
  12. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    it was 1431
    so before Columbus
    from the Mediterranean to northern Norway
    This route became customary for the supply of dried cod
    Mari terrible, so much upwind
    Brigantines were removed to the square sails
    Centuries before it was built the first schooner
    The drawing I posted above is a brigantine.
    The boat Sciarrelli is inspired by those brigantines.
    Even the hull is different from the schooner: more tighter, with more immersion and ballasted.
    Then I realize that for you Americans, each boat with two masts, all is schooner, as calls macaroni any kind of pasta.


    Even today Italy has a permanent commercial basis in those islands.
    The stockfish is a famous dish of Italian cuisine

    [​IMG]
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yeah, really showing your knowledge there . . . good luck with that . . .
     
  14. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    WindRaf, in post #12 the photos did not appear. Could you try to post them again? All I could see are 3 little x's.
     

  15. WindRaf
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    WindRaf Senior Member

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