bead and cove strips

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Dijkhuizen, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. Man Overboard
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    Man Overboard Tom Fugate

    Alan, you hit the nail on the head. It appears in Wooden Boat #120 page 95. An article about a woman (Linda Smith) who built a 30’ strip/cold molded Falmouth cutter.(Lyle Hess design) This bathtub that is built into the boat was also built by her. Eponodyne, here is your strip plank tub. (Laminated spruce with teak trim)
     

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  2. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    That Lyle Hess cutter design is one of the loveliest ever to come off a drawing board; and what that owner/builder did makes it all the better. i can very clearly imagine coming off a watch standing bow lookout for 4 hours straight and laying below, shucking off foulies and underlayers as I went, and submerging myself in that tub until I was simply lolling with heaviness and the need to get into a berth before the Lord did it for me.

    My girlfriend is soon to start an intensive course of schooling for furniture design; I am going to suggest a niche market to her when I see her next. That photo just got printed.
     
  3. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    The romance of woodworking is fine on the odd cabinet.
    I bet preparing the timbers for a 30ft yacht will get way past the 'manual' level.
    Even on my strip plank 16ft canoe, it would have been a major effort. Take your average WRC - with its assortment of knots, cranky grain and weak spots - pulling all this past a couple of chisels - well, I would like to see that.
    Actually, I used straight edge planks because the glue was a self filling glue, that when combined with clothes peg design clamps, really didnt present much of an aligment problem.
    Also, depending on the hull shapes, a lot of coving has to be planed off to fit stealer planks, sharp angles etc.
    I must admit, I have gone 'off' strip planking a bit after finding how much work is involved. Plywood looks much more appealing, even on nicely rounded hulls.
    Good luck with the project though.
     
  4. chandler
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    chandler Senior Member

    With 1/4" stock the cove would need 1/8" of wood removed. That wood be quite a pull through the die, if you have to do it 3 times to get the desired shape I think an investment in a router, bits, and ear goggles might be cost effective.
     
  5. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    1/4" stock doesn't necessarily have to be coved to a 1/8" radius. Even a 1" radius will do. Considering many many boats have been built with no radius, a one inch radius would be satisfactory, and would entail removal of 1/32", not 1/8".
    The die idea isn't meant to replace the router, but to augment the choices available to the novice builder, or for someone far from a source of electricity.
    I'm amenable to tongue and groove too, easily done on a table saw with a jig and two saw blades with a spacer between. A lot qiueter than a router, available without purchasing $200.00 plus in equipment too. The T&G method would put a 1/8" tongue on the edge 1/8" tall. The method would have the added benefit of grip due to added edge surfaces.
    It is true that a T&G section would have an "open" side, an imperfect fit, and technically allows no angles, but wood has a bit of give, and it really is a very narrow crack to fill.
     
  6. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    Alan,
    The sort of "die" you seem to be describing have been around for a few hundred years as wooden molding planes. They can be found in most antique stores for around $15 apiece in the cove/bead sections we are talking about, especially in the 3/4" to 1" radius sizes. At least in Wisconsing and Minnesota.

    As for effort to push: any competent machine shop could braze carbide onto the irons to maintain sharpness for a reasonable length of time, and a common Delta power feeder (Not too noisy at all, considering effort saved) could shove or pull everything through nice and smooth.
     
  7. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Very true. I like low tech solutions, especially quiet ones.
     
  8. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    There is a reason the wooden moulding planes are not in use - and as a frequent user on my grandfathers farm, I know why.
    Wood just isnt that uniform - and I have pushed plenty of planes of all sorts enough to know the difficulties involved.
    Wear some earplus for 48 hours and just get the lumber through. Its either the machinery screaming, or you after a week of frustration, and its only once per boat ( 10 years between projects :) )
    No-one suggesting the 'alternative quiet approach' has ever done it that way, but it 'sure sounds good' to them.
    But please let us know how it goes if you do try it

    Happy building
     
  9. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    rwatson,

    Couldn't agree more! What a ****, really, we may as well get rid of the electric starter and replace it with a crank handle!

    I love the sentiment, but , hey, I still remember when the portable power plane came in, what a difference that made to production. Bloody adze work and hand planing 'just for the fun of it' is for the birds!

    A nice 1/2 hp electric router mounted upside down on a good steel table (as in a spindle moulder) costs bugger all, and is one of my most used wood working tools.
     
  10. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Nor was I suggesting doing anything "for the fun of it". Just an idea, a fast method to achieve the same result. Possibly useful to those without money for the router and bits, or if they lack power.
    I personally use what works. The adze is faster than any electric tool at times. So is a big chisel (slick). I use either a random orbit sander to cut off bungs or a japanese pull saw. Both ways are fast--- the saw won't accidentally go too deep.
    Ah, me. It is difficult to convey the idea of the speed of some hand tools when that speed is entirely dependant on the sharpness and angle of the blade. In the right hands, some hand tools are amazingly fast. In the wrong hands, they appear to be nearly useless.
     
  11. chandler
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    chandler Senior Member

    If you're going to put a 1/32" radius on a 1/4" strip why bother at all, just use square edge and fill the gaps with smoodge. A rondom orbit sander to cut off bungs is rediculous, a sharp chisel or fine japanese pull saw works fine. If you're going to use a sander you might as well use a ginder and get it done.
     
  12. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    Yeah alan, I understand what you are saying, also agree with chandler, random orbital on bungs? I hope you were referring to the final workload not the process. Those pull saws with no set on one side really are great. I have a few here in China (Taiwan made) that are normal set, and they are very good for slithering off a piece that is difficult to get to. The pull saw to me is far better than our normal push saw for fine work particularly. I only have one Japanese saw, they are very dear in China, the local copy is quite OK, but naturally not the same quality. I love the Japanese tools, very refined.
    Cross cutting fine timber pieces is a pleasure with them.
     
  13. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    To both of you--- I have found that a 6" Porter Cable random-orbit sander with a 60 grit (NO HOLES!) sanding disc is the fastest and most reliable bung cutter I've used. All I can say is try it before commenting.
    The sandpaper cuts fast with control. It's done with the outer edge so you can see it work. When you've got a few hundred bungs to take down, try it out.
    Landlubber--- I agree about Jap tools. I use one every day, and when it becomes dull, I buy a new one.
    Chandler, a regular disc sander is too high speed and the disc always spins, whereas the random orbit has nothing but slight momentum behind the spin, the power being in the occillation. If they made 500 rpm mini-disc sanders, I'd buy one.
    I've cut bungs with chisels, and found the initial stroke to determine grain bias is too high and can break out the bung occasionally. The pull saw does fine but costs $20.00, and a boat with a few hundred bungs will destroy the saw.
    I think you might try a random orbit to do this as specified above. Then get back to me.
     
  14. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    I guess Alan I do not need to knock down a few hundred bungs, we glue down teak decks here, only use bungs now for detail work and small areas. Last deck I did was knocked down with a belt sander, so I am more of a "butcher" than you! (only kidding)

    No sorry mate, I have used many random orbital sanders, they are the ducks guts, my current one is a Rupes electric, I love the action on this machine, they are hard tp buy in Australia, but their 1/2 sheet, palm and random sanders really are great. They seem to last well too (except for the switch boots, but I buy 4 at a time with a new sander).

    Hey, could you please advise me on something. The big 200mm air sanders, is the Detroit better than the Dynabrade. I want to use it for fairing sanding on a 100 footer topsides, my little 150mm would be too slow and fiddly.

    I have not owned a 200mm unit before, only needed the 6" versions.
     

  15. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    The six inch is the largest I've used. I'd love to work with a larger size though.
     
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