Bead and Cove Router Bits - Where to buy in USA?

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by CatBuilder, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    One thing to keep in mind when laying anything over your laminate to walk on is cleanliness,you dont want to contaminate the surface,even though you may be done with that part of the layup there may be secondary bonding and certainly painting to happen later. In fact just always be thinking how to keep things from getting contaminated throughout the project starting with storing your materials after you take delivery.You have mentioned that water can run your shop etc. If there is any possibilitiy of roof leaks,cover your raw materials. Keep it off the floor etc, keep your rolls of glass in their plastic bags when not being used etc etc etc. Soo.. dont go using that dirty crap youve used down in the crawlspace,use something clean,and reasonably stiff to spread the point loading of say, a foot.
    BTW,i know what you mean about the crawlspace, i am just writing this to avoid getting back down in mine,ive got the floor ripped up and am replacing 10 joists and laying down plastic over the dirt to try to limit moisture damage,its nasty down there,at least i dont have snakes.
    Steve.
     
  2. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

  3. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Good advice, Steve. Thanks. I got a special storage container for materials thinking exactly what you are saying. I will have to install bulkheads after walking on the laminate so I will definitely be careful. I'm thinking I can put something down the center for walking on and that should be sufficient. Something clean with no oils on it. New wood, possibly?

    I have been vacuuming the shop every day and trying to turn it from a grungy place into a laboratory, basically. Keeping things clean.

    Hoyt: I did the sistered, butted, glued and screwed add ons to the mold anywhere it was kind of spindly. It's much more rugged now. I did 3 or 4 on the bilge side and 12 or 13 of them on the deck side.

    Time to level things up again, plumb things up again and start putting in some long runners to hold the mold as well as longitudinal runners to hold the foam up.

    Had some trouble with the foam company today raising prices on me when I was getting ready to pay. Watch out if you are buying Core Cell. They quoted me one thing, then increased the quote by 20% when I went to pay. It's still in the works though...
     
  4. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    "Had some trouble with the foam company today raising prices on me when I was getting ready to pay. Watch out if you are buying Core Cell. They quoted me one thing, then increased the quote by 20% when I went to pay. It's still in the works though..."

    You might want to imply bait and switch unless you think it will scotch the whole deal.
     
  5. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    It was bait and switch, but I am going to wait it out and see if they accept an offer in compromise.
     
  6. rberrey
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: AL gulf coast

    rberrey Senior Member

    Cat I do a lot of concrete form work , the use of flat materials in form work cause flat spots. In boat building the frames are cut to the proper curves but the battens are not , they are tourtured and have flat spots that will cause flat spots in your hull. I will build a male form using pvc pipe bow to stearn to get a fair curve, if I need to stiffen it up I will mark the curve on a peice of ply just like I did for my frames, cut to the curve and incorperate it into my form. I will strip the form with masonate , hold the foam in place with ties and or buttens and use raptor copulas from bateau. rick
     
  7. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Cat, ive kinda lost track of where you are at,have you made the decision between strip planking or vertical stripping? If the forms were made to the outside of the foam for the strip planking method and you are changing to the vertical stripping and as you mentioned in post #78, you still need to level and plumb the forms,you may find it easiest to bite the bullet and dismantle the forms and notch in full length stringers to attatch the foam to. It will be easier to do on some saw horses as you can make a routing template for the notch that is wider than the stringer but the exact depth so you can rout in and out using a top bearing pattern bit in a big router. I would scarf up the stringers before tearing down the forms so you can mark the positions first. It sucks to go backwards but to try to use shorts between the forms would take more time and not be fair. If on the other hand the forms allow for the thickness of the stringers ignore this.
    Steve.
     
  8. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Sorry, Steve. I probably should update more often if I'm going to ask questions.

    I made the decision to go with the vertical/athwartships sections. I've already leveled and plumbed everything once. I'm just very *very* anal with this part of things because I know if I get this right, the rest is a lot easier. If I get this wrong, I'll have a date with bog and some hell with fairing. So... I'm double and triple leveling and plumbing things up.

    I have a router set up and am ready to start cutting notches into the forms as soon as I mark them all at the proper depth to insert the long battens.

    I will pre-drill the holes in the long battens, as is suggested for this method. This helps you pull the foam down to the batten without having to drive a screw through the batten to get yourself started.

    I also still need to scarf up the stringers, or maybe butt join them between forms. This week has been fully wasted dealing with vendors (and their tricks), so all I could get done so far was the the reinforcement Hoyt suggested in that drawing he uploaded further back.

    Rick: Bateau is GREAT! Got some stuff from those guys. Will be sending a lot more their way. I suppose the battens could cause some flat spots between the forms (which are about 3' on center). The effect will be very minimal though, I think, especially since the foam comes out of the mold before it's glassed on that side. The battens only hold foam in place, because this is a female form. It acts like a big basket. You line it with foam, then glass the inside of it. You then pull it out of the form entirely, with a glassed inside and bare foam outside awaiting glass. You join it with another "half hull" and glass the outside. The long battens never are involved in your glass work. Make sense?
     
  9. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Cat,it is important to scarf the stringers so they will bend fair because when you screw the foam to the stringers, if there are flats you will lock in that unfairness when you glass the inside. Its real easy to do the scarfs, just stagger a bunch of material by roughly the length of the scarf,clamp them together, clamp on a straight edge to say,an 8:1 ratio and zip it off with a circular saw with a sharp blade, glue the scarfs with titebond. Stagger a bunch and clamp them together, use waxed lunchwrap to keep them from sticking to one another. If you butt them with blocks they wont bend fair and you will pay later.
    Steve.
     
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  10. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    Location: Sunny Ft Lauderdale Fla

    War Whoop Senior Member

    Yes I agree scarf and glue up the total lengths needed, then you can tack them to the frames using the offset of your router base to bit for a location and simply cut the notches also Butt blocks are a bad idea.

    I used to notch for the battens with the frames in place on some of the plug work.

    I would glue up with epoxy and drilling the screw clearance holes is a must do.
     
  11. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Attention to detail is where quality comes from.

    As Steve said...
    A template or guide of some sort is what you need. It is very hard to freehand rout to a drawn line. With a guide you don't have to intensely concentrate and it will go much faster and be much more accurate. You are going to have a few hundred notches. ?

    Pre-drilling for the screws is a requirement, otherwise the foam won't pull down.

    Scarf the battens.

    Merry Christmas!
     
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  12. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Whoops! Good point about scarfing the battens. I'll make sure to do that. Thanks!
     
  13. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    Location: Sunny Ft Lauderdale Fla

    War Whoop Senior Member

    Location is important that is the reason I use the batten itself as a guide across the frames.
     
  14. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    So you're saying to rest the router base on a batten (or two) to regulate the depth and the straight bit (with no ball bearing) would be vertical? I hadn't thought of it that way, but that would work fine. I was thinking going at it with the router base on the side of the frame and the bit (with ball bearing pilot) horizontal, with a guide quickclamped to the side of the frame.

    Avoiding free hand routing is the way to do it, no matter what.
     

  15. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Yep,War Whoops way works well when the frames are already erected we used to use 2 stringers and spacers to neatly rout stringers into laminated frames on cold molded boats for the fwd and aft frames so we didnt need to bevel the frame.
    Steve.
     
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