Batteries and New Battery Technologies

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    This post is about storing energy, electro-chemical processes, innovation, not about accusing each other of stupidity, religion or qualifications for a man elected by the US people to pull them out of the swamp.


    The problem , as always is WHO PAYS? for whatever the "answer" to some created problem is.


    Left alone the free market will make the decision of weather oil or coal or ??? will be the power source of the future.

    The religous LEFT wants burorats to force a "solution" based on their personal hate agendas.

    The argument as usual is weather the market (as unfree as it is ) or Force and Fraud ,( government ) will decide on weather we must row our boats or not.

    FF
     
  2. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Charging batteries requires fuel use, which is politically charged. :D :D
    Society is being lied to by politicians.
    Politicians are the problem.
    Lose the politicos.
    Sun shines.
    All ok.
    Yes.
    :p
     
  3. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Thank you CDK, I 've seen a few too many forum subjects get sent off track. I think that's why we have this, the Drivel Thread.

    So please, lets work towards tracking solutions to the technology at hand.
     
  4. SheetWise
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    SheetWise All Beach -- No Water.

    Yes. It's an incredibly politically charged issue.
     
  5. masalai
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    masalai masalai

  6. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    What's New

    I was wondering what new developments might have occurred with these technologies. Regrettably I've been away from the forms for awhile.

    So what's new??
     
  7. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Not much in batteries except that GM (is it) USA is going to be a heavy user of Lithium for their new car http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/mills/2009/0330.html and spiral wound AGM may be what I will be using - not needed for 10 months?... I am weight conscious - which is a minus for AGM and also price averse for all, which leaves rubber bands or human power:D:D:D

    I am looking for a small (light) efficient diesel DC genset such as http://www.onsitepower.com.au/products/marine/dc722m.htm but giving a bit more power ie 8000w at 48v nominal to charge maintain power for 2 x 4.0 R motors http://www.torqeedoaustralia.com/Torqeedo_Australia/Products.html - - I may even settle for 2 x 5000W or so chargers for redundancy...
     
  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Here is some GOOD NEWS,


    for those of you, who, like me, are looking for electrical storage systems for their boats and other mobile devices.... http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/mills/2009/0413.html and I presume worthy investment options to consider for the long-term...

    I hope that developments in these areas will make the battery option for the storage of (electrical) energy, more economically viable...
     
  9. SheetWise
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    SheetWise All Beach -- No Water.

    Can you name the last two technological advancements that were a result of government intervention in markets?

    There are thousands of independent free market developers working on these problems, and solutions will be found in spite of the governments efforts, not because of them.
     
  10. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Not the last two, but Australia seems to occasionally support innovation, then, when production or next step funding is sought, industry here seems to lack the aptitude to recognise something worthy and production goes overseas (in the past - often to USA) - a big one was the airlines "black box" - - actually an orange/yellow box, which came from Australia.. and I have a feeling cochlea had some support in OZ but I am not sure... - My motive for posting was relevance to a possible need and, for a change, was positive and not the usual hype & lies....
     
  11. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    there are a lot of inovations coming in the near future due to the higher demand of our 'mobile' society and the foreseeable lack of oil.

    one just recently (march this year) published inovation came from the MIT:
    http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090311/full/news.2009.156.html
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7235/abs/nature07853.html

    this does not provide higher storage capabilities but an enourmous reduction in charging time. cell phone batteries with an charging time of ~6-10 min have been fully charged within seconds.....
    licenses have been given to 2 companys so far, so there is the posibility that we have those types of batteries on the market within the next 2-3 years.

    reduction in charging time = reduction of time running the generator (provided the generator has enough output) = less diesel... am i right?
     
  12. SheetWise
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    SheetWise All Beach -- No Water.

    Anyone with money can direct the use of resources, and the application of existing technologies -- but if it's not their money, it's almost certainly going to result in malinvestment. Markets are extremely quick to adopt solutions that make economic sense -- governments only adopt solutions that make political sense.

    What I read in that advertisement is nothing but hype and lies. I don't see any positive note. With the knowledge that Li-ion is going to be artificially supported as a solution and its cost subsidized, we can safely predict that alternative solutions will be made relatively more expensive and their market entry will be delayed. The government will therefore distort the economic realities and delay advancement -- as they always do.
     
  13. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    was not so long ago that you told this place you had commissioned this build?
    So if I rang Bob and asked him had you? what would he say?
    Not a bad boat that, flush decks a real plus
    yes think will call ole Bob a la matin
     
  14. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    You have some valid points there Sheetwise, but there are some very positive developments that come out of DARPA and our National Research Labs.

    The economics will drive the development more quickly in our US system, and I was really hoping that the big increase in fuel prices would be a big boost. As they dropped off, the rush to build these new technologies may have lost some momentum. But those high fuel prices will return in short order, and meanwhile the fellows who kept after new technologies will be leading the charge.

    Lets hope the government involvement does not distort the equation by favoring one tech (particularly Li-ion) over the others as happened with our ethanol adoption as an alternative fuel....foolishness.
     

  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Arc Lite batteries

    In the recent Apr/May issue of Professional Boatbuilder there was an article entitled, The Real McCoy, and dealing with the development of a Hybrid Diesel-Electric Charter Vessel.

    Hybrid Diesel Electric art ProBoat
    http://www.proboat-digital.com/proboat/e20090405/
    (go to the index and click on Real McCoy article)

    In that article there was a subsection dealing with the development of what they are calling ARC Lite batteries. (page42).
    Interesting development

    (I'm not that impressed with the rest of the vessel as a whole, but it sure shows a quest for experimentation and developments from the 'little independent guys')
     
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