Batteries and New Battery Technologies

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    not looking for apologies. Articles are often written so so - that is why I checked teh source which is pretty clear on the energy/weight.
    That being said as it was pointed out in the comments that Li-ion was invented in 70s and became 1st commercial in the 90s and only became popular in 2000s. So I am not holding my breath either - yet I do welcome the research and and advances.
     
  2. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi kerosene,
    Contrary, I am holding my breath, as I am dying to see better batteries (at a affordable price) to become available on the market. I agree with you, advances in research are very welcome. I wish that more funds would be allocated to new battery technology. Bert
     
  3. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I wish that more funds would be allocated to new battery technology.

    MANY MANY MANY millions over the past 1/4 century have so far been dumped in better batteries.

    So far the cost has risen far above the increase in performance.

    Perhaps the 125 year old wet lead acid batt is about as good as it gets at modest cost?
     
  4. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Wet lead batteries are the lowest cost, but can't be used in applications where weight and leakage are critical considerations. High cost of rare materials for the newer technology batteries is not expected to decrease much with mass production as demand increases and rare material reserves are depleted.

    FWIW, JMHO, etc.

    Porta

     
  5. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Porta,
    Agreed, if I look at the trillions of dollars poured into the oil technology, then what is spend on battery technology , no comparison. Therefore I gamble on super capacitors, in the hoop that there will be a breakthrough in storing and retrieving the electrons not just from the surface of the material, like a normal capacitor, but from the total mass of a new material?? I like the Maxwell Automotive car battery. Just not enough energy, but it has the right ingredients for economical cost of production. You make it, you use it a few million times, deep charging and fast charging and then you recycle it. Maybe it is a big dream, but what the hell, without a dream a person is a nobody.
    Bert
     
  6. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

  7. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Hello Bert:
    Super caps are great where short BURSTS of power are needed. Maxwell car battery works because supercaps can outperform lead batteries for the few seconds needed to start a petrol engine and recharge more quickly once the petrol engine is running. Their use in UPS backup supplies emphasizes that most interruptions last less than 0.1 second.

    I have not seen anything that shows they can come close to batteries of the same SIZE in CAPACITY to run for hours. Even in theory calculations with nanotechnology, carbon aerogel configurations, total atomized mass surface area, etc. AFAIK, there are still the fast self discharge, and rapid hyperbolic curve discharge loss of capacity issues.

    Hope this helps.

    Porta

     
  8. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Porta,
    I am an optimist and hope that one day, somebody will come up with a few new materials, which allow thinner dielectric without the voltage potential is reduced, but increased and allow more electrons to be absorbed in the electrical conductive part.
    Porta, don't give me a nightmare instead of a wonderful dream (grin on my face), but realistically you are right, today's technology is not there yet. Bert
     
  9. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Bert:
    Sorry for how that came out. Don't want to discourage dreams, and I think yours will come true in a way.

    Mine is that a battery with all the positive aspects of a supercap without the detriments will be developed. Theoretically possible with conducting polymers like polyacetylene and nanotechnology. Back to petroleum, though.

    Regards,

    Porta

     
  10. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Modern 150,000 RPM flywheels operated in a vacuum can would offer the ability to recieve a charge at a huge rate , a requirement .

    Energy storage does not always mean a battery.
     
  11. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Going to have an interesting gyroscope effect on a boat, though....

    PDW
     
  12. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    I remember that Stellenbosch University some 30 years ago made one, the kinetic energy was awesome. They tried it on a vehicle, but I love to know whether they also tried it on a boat. Indeed very interesting.
    Bert
     
  13. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I understand the flywheel in cars is being over l ignored due to the Tort Liars for hire.

    Think of a crash with a flywheel that contains the energy of 10 gal of fuel , 300-400 miles worth.

    Should all that energy somehow get loose quickly , the liars would be parachuting in!
     
  14. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    There are some anti rolling gyroscopes just maked for this..
     

  15. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage
    Long periodic maintenance downtime issues, large space requirements when including gimbals and bullet proof housing, possible steep discharge as rotation slows and self discharge due to earth rotation, etc.

    Hope this helps.

    Porta
     
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