Batteries and New Battery Technologies

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    patent

    Hi there,

    I just noticed an article on a new patent, whereby Lithium batteries can be charged in 2 to 3 years time within minutes.
    Lucky we have also Lithium in the ground.

    Just a pity that we have to wait again.

    Bert
     

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  2. sigurd
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    sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

    yes, from batt to ESC. needs to be quick disconnect. Haven't calculated required wire size yet.. it'll be fat. if I use gold plated, will it absolutely never corrode?

    I'm sure I can make something that will be serviceable for a while, but would rather have a definately lasting solution.

    I could stuff a copper liner into a flexible, transparent hose, and then fo the other side use a little pole to stick into it like a phono jack - depending on the materials and diameters it could be reasonably sprayproof and the elastic hose would give pressure to the connexion.
     
  3. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    sigurd, mild curiosity? what are you welding:eek::? - - "DC 200Amp, but there will be no current while connecting. yup, ground and positive. 50v open circuit" - - That is a lot of juice to consider a "quick disconnect/connect" - will that be continuous - for a propulsion motor for your boat? - If so then something more robust (permanent), would be what I would seek to install... "Gold plated", is just hype and a waste of the precious metal (Audiophiles seem to **** a lot).... - Effectively "tinned" can be readily user repaired, (apply some solder), and the cable should be fully tinned for heavy load applications in the marine environment anyway...
    :)DJust 2c worth from a cautious 'dummy':D)
     
  4. sigurd
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    sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

    hi massali, lots thanks... what I'm welding? It should be obvious that I intend to weld the connectors together!! just kidding. not continuous I think but one never knows.
    Think about it, haven't you seen those marine switches with a red plastic key in it, designed to carry starter amps for medium/small diesels? Those aren't even waterproof and use copper on copper with assumedly moderate contact pressure... no much heating of them that I've noticed. Should not be that difficult for the internet to produce a similar or better type of quick disconnect. Something with a solid pressure on it, and the surfaces being serviceable.
     
  5. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    In keeping with the "tongue-in-cheek" mood to hide the truth and any pretence at qualified knowledge on my part.... - - How about terminating the wires to a pair of 1" wide and 1/8th" thick copper bars and fitting a neat bolt hole in each so, at a fixed base with a bolt, and a spring washer with a wing-nut, you could hold the bars electrically together simply and effectively...:?: One could even paint the matching ends red and green respectively, (so the + and -/earth? could be correctly paired), over the shrink wrap on the tinned copper cables:D:D:D - - - - Am I useful sometimes:?: (don't answer that):D
     
  6. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Masalai,
    Woowh I am starting to get impressed, yes that is indeed the way to go.

    Bert
     
  7. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Rick,

    You are right again. It definite means that Lithium will become the powersource for electric vehicles and boats.
    If they can get the solarcell systems properly up and running also i.e. 40 % with tricks, it will become for sure a green earth. Do you have Lithium in the ground in Australia?
    Bert
     
  8. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Sigurd,

    Why don't you use a startermotor switch and modify this with some turning gadget. I would not "fast" disconnect the earth, but just use 2 lugs with bolt and nut and only disconnect the plus via such a modified startermotor gadget. Thereafter you can disconnect the earth and plus if you need to have the cable "rolled up". It takes a little more time, but it will work.
    Sure, there must be a suitable one at a scrapyard.

    But don't make a mistake what you will see, if you fast disconnect 200 ampere at 48 Volt. The EMK will be quite something.

    Bert
     
  9. masalai
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    masalai masalai

  10. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    50 watthour for 112 Dollar versus 12 x 60 = 720 watthour for the same price (here by us) . Not a proposition. I do not believe that those SNF sealed deep charging batteries made here by us for the gold mines are much worse.

    Bert
     
  11. expedition
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    expedition Thorwald Westmaas

    I was excited to read about those new Mastervolt lithium batteries.

    Until I was told they cost $ 7000 each..

    I wonder how many they expect to sell.

    Despite the many advantages, how can such a price be justified?
     
  12. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi ,
    I assume the $7000 is for a 10Kwh 48 Volt unit. It is indeed still too high, even if the recharging cycle is 6 times more than SLAB's. If you look it from that point of view, the cost is about the same as Lead Acid batteries. The problem is the same with a company who gives you 25 year warranty, but who can really forecast that that company will still exsist in 25 years time?. Thus here the same, 2000 - 2500 recharging cycles, but we have to fork the money up front. Who can really guarantee that they last 2000 - 2500 deepcycling? If it means once per week, 50 years. The light weight is the very strong advantage and maybe we should just pay the price and pay it off like a boat or car, over 5 or 6 years. Lithium is the way to go.
    Bert
     
  13. yipster
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    yipster designer

    yes $ 5000 is expensive for a battery, still, in proffesional boatbuilder magazine # 120 Nigel Calder has an article "running the numbers" on actual cost
    and in some scenarios he mentions these can be a good investment over time that pencils out, good electrical power aboard article anyway
     
  14. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    this is old news.... ;)
    if you look at post #116 in this thread you will find links to articles from the nature magazine relating to this new technology...
    to my knowledge this is in a way already on the market... batteries from altairnano and a123-systems are incorporating nanostructures to speed up charging....
     

  15. expedition
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    expedition Thorwald Westmaas

    Actually, I was quoted this price for an 8-cell, 26,5 volt model.

    And yes, how many boat owners still have their boat 25 years later :).

    I'm sure the competition will catch up eventually and bring the price down. After all, a lithium battery is a commodity after all, even with some fancy electronics.
     
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