Basalt fiber

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Jim Allen, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The standards with which I have worked so far (I have never designed a boat that did not have to comply with any regulations related to scantlings), to my knowledge, do not contemplate the use of this material. Which does not mean that there are no boats built with it and even insured by insurance companies.
    I thank you because, with concrete examples, you are helping me to know better the real, current possibilities of this material.
    Really interesting. Any proof to show or is it just a guess?
     
  2. rberrey
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    rberrey Senior Member

    Not sure if it has already posted but African Cat,s are built with Basalt fiber
     
  3. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  4. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Jim Allen- Basalt composite was explored commercially by Toyota as an exhaust canister because of high heat resistance. Basalt fibers being of volcanic rock origin has high heat resistance. It has roughly twice the strength of Eglass and S2 glass but it is heavier. Weight is important so it did not catch on. For the purpose it serves, where weight is no issue, basalt and phenolic resin is the best combination for resistance to heat.
     
  5. Jim Allen
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    Jim Allen Junior Member

    I completely agree but no risk no reward. I know it seems like an ibcessed with it and it's kind of true. However, until I have a ssue with something that I have used then I have to stick with what I now the least amount with..and it's to me a good proceed on now I don't then no there is much difference with the Matt's which are wilocw ..other than it's not gonna catch fire..lol
    A
     
  6. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    It will burn depending on the resin you are using. Glass and basalt fibers do not burn but the resin does. Some epoxy resins are high temperature but do burn. Phenolic resin (widely used in the electrical industry) do "burn" for awhile, but it turns into carbon (soot) forming an effective insulator against heat. Phenolic has an ablative property. It turns into soot forming an insulator unless scraped but again the second surface "burns" again and form a soot.
     
  7. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Thats an excellent point. And also documentation on Basalt reminds the user that though the fibre can withstand high temperature, the resin substrate will not be, with both Epoxy and Poly resins not able to resist much heat.
     
  8. phrogjlf@yahoo
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    I know a fellow that sells Basalt products and is building a ferrocement type barge, substituting Basalt rebar for steel. I believe he intends on using a new Basalt fibercement, as well.
     
  9. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Basicly it's the bottom line what counts. Basalt is about 30% better compared the physical properties of E-glass but 100% more price. There's some savings of resin and work so the bottom line might be close to equall and that's not reason enough to change from e-glass to basalt for most builders. I got basalt fabric with reduced price so it made sense to me.
     
  10. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    yeah, but you dont buy Basalt to compare to E-Glass. Its a comparison to S-Glass or Carbon for specific performance.
    I cant find any comparable prices on-line quickly for Australia, but I would like to know what they are. Here's a table that explains the characteristics.

    Basalt.png

    http://basalt.today/images/comparison_fibers_basalttoday.pdf
     
  11. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    I do.. Example, let's say the schedule for E-glass calls for two layers of 600g biax. If Basalt is used might be two layers of 450g biax. A bit more costly cloth but spare some resin and labour. Same performance, lighter layup..

    BR Teddy
     
  12. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    My experience from being a fabricator for a very long time, plus being a supplier to the industry for a very long time, you typically look for materials and designs for production items that are "adequate", not the "the best".

    I say this because using the best, or close to it, typically costs a great deal more and takes longer to do, plus is more dependent on skilled labor. And when the price goes up your target market shrinks fast.

    I think only one time in twenty years did a customer ask me about basalt fibers, even the ones that wanted better performing products, and having enough basalt in the pipeline to keep a customer supplied would a little tough too. I'm not talking about part of a roll or even a few rolls, they needs pallets of it for most projects, this means special ordering it, which can mean long lead times.

    Again, this has nothing to do with its properties, just how the supply chain and production works.

    For those that have a special project, or the right market to target, the allure of an exotic fiber may pay off. If it's a DIY project, then anything goes.
     
  13. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    I looked into Basalt a while ago, it’s big plus from memory was a much better compression strength than eglass making it a better performer on the outside of a sandwich. My resin choice would be vinylester.
    By the way Kevlar is extremely hydrophilic so not a good choice and a ***** to repair, when ground it fluffs up like an afro. The only way to sand it is to wet and dry sand it, then you have to get the water out !
     
  14. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    I looked deeply into basalt fibers a couple of years ago for a 44ft fast cruising cat my son was going to build in an existing female hull mold. I obtained samples of the full range of fabrics from Sudaglass and I must say they are as nicely made as anything I have used in glass, much better than many. The problem I ran into was that all of the fabric weights mimicked what was available in glass which would give me a stronger but heavier product which was unacceptable. I was working from an existing laminate schedule which one would assume to being adequate so I was not looking for more strength but hopefully a weight saving. The main reason I was exploring this was that we were having problems sourcing the particular fabric that was specified so were going to have to substitute anyway. My takeaway from the exercise is that they would have better luck making inroads into the marine market at least if the range of fabrics were designed based on taking advantage of the physical properties, while minimizing the weight disadvantage over glass. Example, instead of producing a 17 oz/yd2 double bias which would be stronger than glass for the same weight, make, maybe a 15 oz/yd2 Basalt double bias of equal strength to glass. Btw, it became a moot exercise as my son and his girlfriend ended up finding a damaged cat in florida which we repaired and brought home over this past summer.

    Steve.
     

  15. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I do not want to question the advantages of using basalt fiber but, before resorting to materials that, at best, are not fully accepted for all applications, I would prefer to be sure that I am no longer able to reduce the weight of my FRP structure by the traditional method of engineering : think and calculate.
     
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