Awlgrip problems?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Smarten, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. Smarten
    Joined: May 2004
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    Smarten Junior Member

    Hi,

    I had my fiberglass boat 49' just repainted with Awlgrip Oyster White.

    Unfortunately I found visible difference in color nuances between the hull and upper structure. The hull seems "less cream" than all the others parts. Those areas according the shipyard were sprayed with same topcoat but of different provenience (I mean bought from two different Awlgrip dealers. It seems in fact their usual provider run momentary out of Oyster White).

    Practically the shipyard is suggesting problems in Awlgrip production homogeneity. They affirm already experienced problems like that in the past with some Awlgrip cans. But in that case were wrong only little details so a free replacement from the Awlgrip distributor (that happened twice before right color were found) solved the issue.

    As you can imagine that's not my case where all the hull needs to be resprayed.

    Does have anybody ever heard of such problems with Awlgrip products?

    How do you suggest to approach that matter to determine responsibilities?

    Thank you in advance for your support

    Smarten
     
  2. Gilbert
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Gilbert Senior Member

    First off, I am not the guy with the difinitive answers for you but since you asked and no one else has spoken up.............
    Obviously it is not your fault. So it is somebody else that is responsible.
    I know these paint jobs cost a lot so you should push very diligently for a resolution.
    I believe Awlgrip has a trouble shooting guy on their payroll, or they used to. So try to find out who it is and get him (or her) involved and see if they don't make it right.
    I don't think the clerk at point of purchase can probably do anything but throw up his hands.
     
  3. longliner45
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    gilbert is right ,,and thankyou for bringing this piont up,,I will try to purchase one batch ,from the maker,,for one job ,to avoid this delema,,also let us know how you fair with alwgrip ,it will have a bearing on my purchase,,longliner
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I think it more likely they didnt stir the paint properly.
     
  5. Poida
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Poida Senior Member

    As previously been a marketing manager for a coatings company there are a few things I learnt about the manufacture of paints.

    Paint colour is still, or was then controlled by the paint maker and the colour was or still is tested by eye.

    If the colour is not correct the paint maker will add tints to correct the colour.

    This is because a lot of components go in to manufacturing a paint and any differences in any one of the components can throw the colour out meaning extra tints have to be added to make the correction.

    So, if you are painting a boat and you want the same colour, make sure you get all the paint from the same batch.

    There is also a phenomenon known as metamarism. This is where two colours look the same side by side under one light, but because of the composition of the coatings will look different under another light.

    So, although the colours looked the same to the paint maker, they look different under the light that you are painting.

    As Jack correctly pointed out the stirring of the paint could be an issue. Trying to think what tints would be in an oyster white, maybe ochre, that tint is a bugger and when being stirred makes its way to the top of the can and hangs around uder the rim. Black tint does the same, it is very important to get this tint down into the paint.

    Tints can also separate from the paint as it is being used, so stirring at frequent intervals is recommended.

    Poida
     
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  6. GoSlow
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    GoSlow Junior Member

    We had our boat painted with Awlgrip-Awlcraft 2000 in 1999 in South Florida and at the time there was a manufacturer's rep for Awlgrip. There should be one who covers the area you are in. Most of these companies also have a technical support department. While you may not have a product problem it may be helpful to have that ruled out by the manufacturer. I completely agree with Gilbert that you should be resolute in getting either the supplier or the applicator to make good on the job.
     
  7. Oyster
    Joined: Feb 2006
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    Oyster Senior Member

    There has been many issues with the primers under linear paints, and even enamel paints of the lighter colors. Awlquip has a cream primer or yellowish and white which can cause topcoats to show different, too. Also the hull colors sometimes show different than superstructures because of the reflections of the water versus the sun. If the hull was a darker color from the beginning than that superstructure, and if the hull was not primed, you have also being seeing a difference in the shade as being darker with the same paints after the paints has gone through it final stages of shrinking from the solvents leaving the surface..
     
  8. jimslade
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: north Markham

    jimslade Senior Member

    Somebody messed up. Looks like small claims court. Prepack colours should not have tinting problems.
     
  9. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    I've never heard of any one guaranteeing the same color from two different batches or lots. It comes down to Awlgrip or the painters are at fault. The painters will tell you anything to shift the blame.You need to be able to prove they used different batches. If they are to blame, you should get a new paint job for free. If Awlgrip is to blame, you might only get free paint.
    Also, it might be easiest all around to work something out and then just live with it. To be sure you solve the problem, you almost have to do the whole boat again, top and bottem. It might be something only you are accutely aware of and 99% of people might not notice anything wrong.
     
  10. VKRUE
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Central Illinois

    VKRUE Just another boat lover

    Awlgrip paint Question

    Hey guys... & gals too.

    Not trying to steal this thread but, I do have a question about the Awlgrip paint (any paint) and you're talking about it now so I thought it might be a good time to ask.

    I'm planning on buying some Awlgrip primer and paint in the near future... and by the time I do, it might not matter any more.
    I'm concerned with the paint's quality after shipping in the cold weather. Paint, as I understaned it, is supposed to be maintained above a certian tempurature... definitely not allowed to freeze.

    If I order my paint now and it is shipped on a NON-TEMP. CONTROLED truck or sits on an open cross-dock waiting to be re-loaded onto a different truck, it very well could be exposed to freezing. The folks at Jamestown Distributors say "no problems... nothing to worry about".

    What are your opinions ?
     
  11. Poida
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Poida Senior Member

    Vkrue

    Where I live things don't freeze unless they are in a freezer, so I have never had to learn or understand the problems associated with it.

    However applying the apint when it could be subject to extreme cold or heat during the drying period is not recommended.

    Meanwhile shipping the paint, the question is although you may be experiencing below zero weather, will the paint in the can actually freeze, as the freezing point of the paint may be below the freezing point of water.

    Also outside things freeze due to the chill factor (wind) in a depot the temperature may not get down far enough to be a problem.

    Either way, contact the manufacturers, they will most probably have a website with contact details.

    Another point is why purchase the paint during a time when you would not, because of the temperature be able to apply it?

    Wait until the weather gets warmer.

    Poida
     
  12. Poida
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Poida Senior Member

    Getting back to the Awlgrip problem.

    Claims against paint is always a problem as I have found out from being in the industry.

    The application of the paint is in all cases I have experienced as being the problem. Manufacture of paint is very controlled, when batches are made colour samples are checked and stored along with other tests.

    One of the biggest problems is, once the paint is applied it is very difficult to assertain what brand of paint was applied. So was Awlgrip actually used. So the first thing you want to see is the empty containers and a receipt of purchase. Next you work out the volume of paint used and the area covered to assertain that the correct thickness of paint was applied.

    For a start there is a problem because the painters may have thrown the containers away, and also you would want to check that there isn't still any tints left in the can that should have been mixed in with the paint.

    Of course as a consumer the problem is who bought the paint? If the consumer bought the paint and gave it to the painter, you've got a problem because you have to deal with the supplier and the painter.

    If the painter bought the paint all the consumer has to be concerned with is getting the painter to redo it. Whether the supplier re-supplies the paint to the painter is not the consumers problem.

    Poida
     
  13. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I am afraid that Poida is right. Your going to have to live with it or pay for a respray.

    Do you really want them to re-spray. Do you want 1/4 inch of paint on there.

    Is it that bad?

    There are a few tricks left. Like lining or some kind of decoration, numbers etc--take the eye away.

    It may not look that bad to some one else, Ask the wife or some one who has not seen the boat before.

    Even if it only makes you feel better.
     
  14. jimslade
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    jimslade Senior Member

    Freezing has not effect on solvent base paints. Been spraying paint that has been at very cold temps many times with no effect. Water based is another story.You can't freeze solvent based paint no more than you can freeze gasoline unless your at zero degrees kelvin. Also I would have it sprayed again properly. The paint thickness is in thousands of an inch- 4 to 6 mill usually gives coverage..If it were my boat I would have it resprayed and sue the guys who messed up. I have NEVER in 30 years of spaying a complete paint job has there ever been a veriation in color. Somebody doesn't know what their doing.
    Get awlgrip involved they may not want to talk to the judge.
     

  15. longliner45
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    not trying to be a jerk...but north markham must not get as cold as ohio,,,,man its still snowing in april ill be lucky to get 5 mos of heat,,,,sept goes right to cold ....longliner........global warming ,,were?
     
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