Astrid sinks

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Nick.K, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Peter what did you do to the poor girl, for the ship going reverse inset of full speed ahead :D
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    The 5 "P's" spell it out rather clearly, and but for the Grace of God, those 30 kids would have died, because the Captain did not care enough to stand up to the "chief executive of the irish sail training assoc".

    Penny wise, but pound foolish.
     
  3. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    ha

    :) ha
     
  4. Titirangi

    Titirangi Previous Member

    The most common ship killer condition since man set out in sailing ships was close shores and wrong wind direction.
    95% of sailing vessels sunk within rowing distance of shore because conditions wouldn't allow the skipper to gybe away with courses set and only a fool would try to sail off a lee shore against the wind when there was a nice big diesel below.
     
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Ah.

    But, the clincher in this almost disaster was the fact that it was so easily preventable.

    You are moving a vessel for maintenance. So, you decide not to use the primary propulsion, but you decide to use the emergency propulsion instead.

    There is a reason tug boats exist, and they exist for keeping bigger ships from running aground.
     
  6. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Worked well for Astrid.

    OK, I said at the start there was nothing in the article to tell what happened. Now we know a lot more.
    Its obvious a square rigger is not a modern sloop when trying to go to windward.
    As noted, many square riggers died on a lee shore.

    I guess all those lessons learned would have suggested you at least be ready to try everything you could.

    From my armchair as noted before.

    Another cheapshot question: did they try to anchor to stay off the rocks?
    Yes again from the armchair, and with days to consider the options.

    Interesting to note the difference in tenor between this thread and the discussion of the capsize accidents in the AC boats.
     
  7. Titirangi

    Titirangi Previous Member

    I should have added to my post that my comment wasn't a criticism of the Astrid Capt. but a statement of fact of the difficulties all sailing masters of square riggers deal with attempting a 3 point gybe away from coasts with winds blowing inland
     
  8. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    An AC boat, as tragic the accident was, and I pray for the family of this unfortunate crew, is a ego competition between spoil brat with a lot of leach, sucking the blood from billionaire to try to make a buck. (I know it is not a nice way to put it, sometime the design is outstanding, and some people work hard on these boats)
    A training ship very often help young people to get on their feet, get out of drugs, or gangs. the youngster learn the team work and learn who to rely on each other. The training ship is founded by private found raising, or State help program. they are a fantastic part of our heritage, since they are often old ship, with a great history. They are essential to our education system. When a training ship is in difficulty, it is a tragic event, with greatest repercussion than we can imagine. Countless of youngster will have no more access to this fantastic education, due to the lost of a ship. They are unfortunately not numerous.
    Do you have in Texas the Nina? How she is doing. Is she an attraction at the pier or she is sailing?
     
  9. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    [​IMG]
     
  10. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

  11. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Diskira,

    I can't fault your sketch of the major people involved, but I don't know them at all, it is easy to make broad sweeping general statements without direct contact. I think I was generally accused of that, myself.

    Goals and good deeds for the two boats aside, capability of the boats and the seamanship involved in their problems seems to me to be the appropriate way to discuss both situations.

    Talking about the good deeds intended with an old square rigger does not make a bit of difference to what happened. You are making an emotional appeal to cover a rational discussion of the accident.

    I don't want to hang the captain - everyone has a bad day. He and his crew (possibly with the help of the students?) followed the problem up with what was apparently a very competent and obviously successful action to save the people. Doesn't change the question of why the boat is sunk.

    Likewise, I appreciate the financiers of the AC boats for the tremendously interesting and technically advanced boats - no matter if they are a**holes or not. It also doesn't change the fact that 2 boats are destroyed and one man dead. I have my own (unfounded probably) belief in what could have been done at least in the case of Oracle. The truth will be buried to deny information to the competitors.

    Square riggers were my first introduction and started my love of ships. Pity another one is gone.
     
  12. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    When the Captain was ordered to move the ship, he should have known it was too risky.

    I still cannot believe he took a risk he should not have taken. His ship paid the price, thankfully no people did.

    And that was the reason Captains used to go down with their ships.
     
  13. Nick.K
    Joined: May 2011
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    Good question. I don't think the anchor was used.

    I was chatting yesterday with one of the diving team that have just surveyed her. Astrid has a riveted hull which is splitting apart along the keel.
     
  14. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    upchurchmr I was just answering your statement posted below. I was pointing the difference. And for that I gave my explanation of the two.
    I don't make "emotional" statements, where on hell you find that?
    That's all, nothing more nothing else.
    Obviously you forget the Nina, but El_Guero answered, thanks.


     

  15. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Dskira,

    I knew nothing about the Nina, obviously they don't do anything in Texas except call it the home port. Had to look it up when the link was provided

    Emotional - Square rigger, training for at risk youth - good.
    AC cat, ego trip for jerks - bad
    Sorry I got you upset, seemed to be an emotional point of view to me.

    No comment about seamanship and capabilities of the design being the useful discussion?
     
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