Artemis Pitchpoled; 1 Dead

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Earl Boebert, May 9, 2013.

  1. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Par, where is there proper evidence that "curling can stay in the Olympics, but sailing can't"????

    Sure, sailing getting dumped has been something that has been talked about - but there is nothing like that appearing in official records such as the IOC OPC reports. OTHER sports are officially in danger, but NOT sailing.

    Secondly, something as slow as a light-wind 12 Metre race WAS awe-inspiring to many people. This is a demonstrable fact shown by the fact that even in recent years, the '83 AC came up as the most inspiring moment (or something similar) in Australian history in a major survey commissioned by the organisation that runs half of our major papers. Those papers, BTW, normally have sailing on the front page down here in Oz at least a few times a year.

    The Olympics rating figures prove quite clearly that faster sports do NOT rate higher (ie as noted here earlier, slow old swimming outrates "extreme" BMX, flat-water kayaking outrates "extreme" whitewater kayaking, etc etc) so there appears to be little evidence that fast boats will lead to greater spectator interest.

    Where is the evidence that the AC72s have generated interest? If there is interest why are there so few sponsors and broadcasters? It cannot just be the economy as previous ACs in down times have done very well in terms of entries.

    Sailing may be seen as a blue blood thing like polo in the USA. That is the USA, not the entire world. And if the problem with sailing being seen as a "blue blood thing" is that it therefore appears out of reach of the average person then the same can be said of a series featuring boats that are so radically different to the ones the normal sailor sails.

    Even in the USA, the North Sails/Laser-Sunfish study of a few years ago came to the same conclusion that the recent Yachting Australia study noted - people do NOT consider sailing boring. They DO consider it to be elitist and inaccessible.

    Don't we have to consider the results of what are (AIUI) the biggest two surveys of the potential market ever done, when we consider the effects of the AC on the image of the sport? Or do we just ignore these detailed studies?? Should decisions be made on evidence or on faith?

    Years ago, when windsurfing was extremely popular around the world, the powers that be decided that what it needed was to look more exciting. It became much better to watch, and is now about 8% as popular as it was when it was stodgy. Publicity does not create popularity, but apparently the wrong publicity can really hurt it.
     
  2. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Why this fixation about popularity ... who gives a rat's flatulence?
    Sailing is sailing and those who do it, usually love it - and those who don't, move to something else, so what?
    It's circular, new fashionable scene, great interest, then some boredom, then fading participants. Happens all the time. Called life.
    And CT, your weird fence straddling regarding speed - how to you comfortably handle those spiky posts?
    Regarding the AC; best thing that ever happened to yachting, astonishing, outer worldly developments, unheard of even half a decade ago.
    This will take some time for acceptance, big mental changes required, revolutionary, almost anarchic.
    This always goes down well with the "elitist" establishment.
     
  3. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Gary, why do you take photographs and (AIUI) teach photography to the standard you do? Isn't there something about your art that you want to share with the world?

    Isn't the desire to make sailing more popular (or stop it from fading) something similar, perhaps something innate in humans that makes us want to share what we love?

    On a purely mechanical side, without sufficient support from others sailing becomes difficult for the individual. My old club was burned down - if it had insufficient members then it could not have been rebuilt so we would have nowhere to keep our gear, shower, change and sail. My new club had to buy a shipchandlers that was going out of business because of lack of support in this city - without a strong club no one here would be able to buy shackles, hiking straps and paint. The other club I am about to join helped to get the river bar dredged - without that the boats could not get out and go sailing.

    So on the mechanical side, a stronger sailing scene means that we can buy the boats, buy stuff to maintain the boats, store the boats and sail the boats.... do you want much else?

    I don't see any fence-straddling issue about speed. Fast boats are fun, slow boats are fun. What's the problem?

    The AC72s are fascinating of course, but anarchic? These things are owned by one of the richest men in the world, who (AIUI) obtained his billions by selling business tools to major businesses. Another is supported by a handbag label....

    That doesn't seem like "anarchy", it sounds like the big end of town, the peak of establishment consumerist big-business-centred capitalism. And plenty of the sailors are pretty mainstream blokes in my experience.

    Dunno about the big mental changes.....foilers have been around for decades, it's just that the big boat folks are slow to get into them. Dave Kieper may have been an anarchist, dunno about some of the AC72 guys.
     
  4. pbmaise
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    pbmaise Senior Member

    I have a different take on what sailboat racing is all about. I am currently redesigning my large multi-hull with a new mast and new sail plan. I simply don't accept the "conventional Bermuda" and want something different. My boat isn't a fast racing boat, just a modest cruiser. Yet this is my boat. My boat to design, change, and tinker with.

    Puttering is the best phrase for it. I get these ideas in my head about what I want to try. Yes I am an engineer. Yes I map things out in advance, run calculations, and try and predict all variables. Then, I put my efforts into making this design happen and put it to the test.

    It is an extremely fulfilling thing to do. I admire people on boat design forum who tinker with boats as small as a dinghy all the way up to these giant boats.

    The real problem here is that in putting designs of large scale to the test requires crew. Should I say crew accepted the risk? Or should I say the designer and person driving the design are at fault? Both sentences may hold water.

    However, I am grateful that there are people in this world that willingly share the designer's dreams. They put themselves at risk when trying out these new designs. They are indeed heroes.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  5. HASYB
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    HASYB Senior Member

    Intentionally wanted to post below in this thread but I guess lack of coffee made it firstly appear in the 34th AC thread.


    2cts. FWIW.

    I haven't lately read all the post in the thread too closely to be honest and, with the most respect to Bart, think nobody should ever die sailing!
    Sometimes life just decides otherwise: even pedestrians get killed for no apparent reason for that matter.
    All the people trying to eliminate all dangers are of course in their right but if you think one can eliminate all; might have reality mixed up.
    One death in a century of AC, how tragic or unjust that might be, still seems very good statistics; however harsh that may sound.

    About the boats: I think foiling is exiting and multihulls are the best for AC in a long time.
    When I consider that:
    The boats were originally designed not to foil.
    Special measures were taken not to let the boats foil.
    Safety measures were considerably updated during development.
    Technical development outran the boats not to foil.(with much respect to the people developing the latter)

    I can't help thinking that:
    Man... these machines, with much awe for the technics used, still really look and feel unstable, not logic.
    Would nature design something like this?
    What if, from the beginning, a design was used with foiling in mind? Would they still look the same as today's boats?
    Is it to late to start again? Now with a special foiling purpose design?
    __________________
     
  6. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Absolutely correct, CT, about these 72 foilers being the results of right wing capitalism (dare I say, obscene wealth capitalists) - but this is an odd moment in yachting time and history because these foilers are a continuation of developments that came from inventive, brave, way out from left field, so-called lunatic fringe, lefties and anarchists.
    But the foiling pioneers never had the resources to take their boats into the grand scale of these AC72 foiling beasts. But right now, there they are. Big lefty catamarans. Ho ho.
    So yes, I see anarchic connotations. After all they're multihulls too. Who would have thought?
     
  7. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    ^^^


    You've sold your soul to the devil, Coxcreek...

    :(

    (direct video link youtube.com/watch?v=uB5Y9P3p758 )
     
  8. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    While we're at it, here's a slightly longer version:

    (direct link here, while the embedding gremlins do their stuff)





    And since there are not enough cameras on these boats, this is what the Hollywood producer insisted on doing:

    (direct link here, for those of us who are impatient with gremlins)

     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  9. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    You always seem to have a very selective and myopic recollection of history to serve your own narrative. Which is a pity. You might be taken more seriously if you were not so clearly biased.

    Probably the most inventive (this is the only correct term you've used) pioneer is that of Gordon Baker. He had his own company and the US Navy bank roll his projects and reserach into foils. Hardly an anarchist nor poor either!
     
  10. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    IIRC when New Zealand hosted the Commonwealth games they could chose a new sport. They chose curling over sailing. Maybe because it is more athletic :confused: more likely because it is much cheaper to show on TV

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  11. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member

    I've done some curling... It's a lot more fun than sitting on the windward rail of a monohull overnight.

    Maybe curling isn't a question of being much cheaper to show on TV, as that the human interest element (close-ups of the competitors) is actually much easier to display and do commentary upon. The size or refinement of the boat matters little if you can't zero in on the competitors, in the way of golf or tennis.

    Most sailing TV coverage has flopped, and deserved to flop, on that account. It is the main potential advantage of the AC45's and 72's that they are now running all these cameras and microphones.
     
  12. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Yes, curling has a definitive advantage of being easy to understand to anyone who has ever done some house cleaning.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Gets my vote too :p
     
  14. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Hmmm, I'll try to offer swabbing my wing deck for curling practice up North this summer. I can't figure out why this stuff doesn't catch on in the states.....
     

  15. Blackburn
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    Blackburn Senior Member



    Lol

    I was never able to make it understood to Dominique Strauss-Kahn,
    that he was never to disturb any of that vigorous sweeping,
    if he wished to score!
     
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