around in pocket, I I think so

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by WindRaf, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Just for general information.

    Any form of sliding centre boards or swing keels are a pain in the butt.
    Especially for someone that is a "cruiser" and not a racer.
    Fargo has a sliding keel with a bulb and one day when I have time again I want to change that to something fixed.
    I originally did the sliding keel to be able to "beach" easily and for the shallow draft but found it to be more trouble than it's worth.

    In my opinion if you want shallow draft go for 2x bilge keels. Something fixed never moving or swinging.
     

    Attached Files:

    • 1.JPG
      1.JPG
      File size:
      209.2 KB
      Views:
      242
    • 2.JPG
      2.JPG
      File size:
      216.7 KB
      Views:
      236
    • 3.JPG
      3.JPG
      File size:
      129.6 KB
      Views:
      235
    • 4.JPG
      4.JPG
      File size:
      156.2 KB
      Views:
      248
    • 5.JPG
      5.JPG
      File size:
      144.7 KB
      Views:
      249
    • 6.JPG
      6.JPG
      File size:
      168.4 KB
      Views:
      228
    • 7.JPG
      7.JPG
      File size:
      127.2 KB
      Views:
      221
  2. Jamie Kennedy
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 541
    Likes: 10, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 117
    Location: Saint John New Brunswick

    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

    Nice work Mani. Thanks for the photos. Point taken.
     
  3. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,145
    Likes: 265, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Manie.

    That's been my thinking for years. But there are definite drawbacks to long shallow keels. They are not nearly as efficient, so your pointing ability suffers.

    Boards, even ballasted ones, are not so bad when you get them out of the center of the boat.

    If you replaced your one ballasted dagger board with two, side by side ones, you have the same effect of deep ballast and now each board is a little more than half as heavy.

    Although this would mean two board trunks rather than just one, and a loss of some efficiency, due to having in effect an under water biplane as opposed to a monoplane, it might still be worth it. The two boards will help the boat track better.

    The thought of moving a single ballasted board off center has occurred to me. Heavy items, such as galley equipment, can be installed on the opposite side as a counter balance. If that's not enough, some internal ballast can be put there as well.

    Just a few thoughts.

    How's your Ten coming along?
     
  4. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    sharpii2 the fact that it is a moving object is the pain.
    Sand and muck and mud and debris collects, it can be hard to winch to the point where you are scared you are going to break something. It gets noisy it collects fishing lines and weeds.

    Its not the pointing ability that's the problem its the fact that you have just another "mechanical" device on the boat.
    So for me its keep it simple and stupid that's why I don't like the "moving" structure. Don't forget these thing don't like to be crashed into under water objects either.

    ;) so for me its any kind of fixed keel with built in ballast :)
    the ONLY thing I want to move outside the boat is the rudder :cool:
     
  5. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    oh and I must add because the trunk has to be in a very specific position your interior design is around the trunk so your interior design is actually compromised
     

    Attached Files:

    • 174.JPG
      174.JPG
      File size:
      212.4 KB
      Views:
      231
    • 228.JPG
      228.JPG
      File size:
      201.9 KB
      Views:
      213
    • 241.JPG
      241.JPG
      File size:
      362.6 KB
      Views:
      228
  6. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Then also foils - or lets call them "underwater wings" need a certain speed or flow to generate lift depending on the design of the foil used as a centre board, this is great for racing and the ability to make very sharp turns when tacking for example but becomes far less important when cruising.

    For my style of exploration cruising-sailing the ability to stay on a straight line has become more important than being able to make quick turns. Maybe it's the age showing who knows :D but give me slow and steady, set course for the day, and sit back and relax.:eek:
     
  7. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,145
    Likes: 265, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    If the bulb extends in front of the hull, the boat is longer than 10 ft.

    Such could put it in the same camp as the now abandoned Yrvin 10.

    Yes, Manie's boat has pretty much the same shape, so I would give him the same objections as I gave you, if asked.

    As far as the "...I can not write here a book on yacht design" comment goes, I find that very insulting. Especially from someone who asked my opinion in the first place.

    If you are going to continue to be this way, please don't ask for my opinion again.
     
  8. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,145
    Likes: 265, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I hear ya.

    Here's my approach to shoal draft sailing without a board. (see attachment)
     

    Attached Files:

  9. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member

    where you saw this?
    in which drawing?

    of course i can not write here a yacht designe book;
    is not for to be offensive, but a simple reality
     
  10. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member

    10 ft, hull and waterline

    steel ten, tav..png
     
  11. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    nothing wrong with that, I like bilge keels
    I would like to do something similar to Fargo
     
  12. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member


    The mistake non native English speaking people often make (at least I do it frequently) is to "translate" sentences from their native language, almost word by word, into the English words they know to form a sentence.
    Intonation is non-existant in the written world so when we write down words we "hear" them in our mind but what we dont know is how they sound in the head of the one who read those words.
    People who use "Google Translation" know very well how easy it is to misinterpred poor translation.

    I dont think Windraf was trying to insult you Sharpie but I must admit that he sometimes has a rather blunt way of "saying" things.
    He clearly has his own mind and on a public forum where the used language is not your own this can lead to misunderstanding.

    To the English speaking members: please have mercy :)D) on us poor "foreigners".
    To Windraf: please try to take a bit more time to respond and try to round off the harsh corners of your sentences.

    Just my 2 cents...
     
  13. Jamie Kennedy
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 541
    Likes: 10, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 117
    Location: Saint John New Brunswick

    Jamie Kennedy Senior Member

  14. WindRaf
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 343
    Likes: 5, Points: 0
    Location: Italy

    WindRaf Senior Member


    friend, the problem is that english is a barbarian idiom: one single word has twenty meanings, and is very hard to choose the right one to be elegant
     

  15. Westel
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 109
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 43
    Location: Belgium

    Westel Senior Member


    All in all, most of the native English speaking members are very forgiving and understanding about the lack of knowledge regarding language....
    Barbarian idiom, Commedia dell' arte...what's the difference....:D
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.