Are old (1970-1980) I.O.R.-cruisers good for happy cruising on a budget?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by macintoshzoom, Apr 11, 2008.

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Are old (1970-1980) I.O.R.-cruisers good for happy cruising on a budget?

  1. Go and get one of these!. For your budget, your little family will enjoy a memorable time!

    75.0%
  2. These old IOR-cruisers boats are ****. Buy an old camping-car and a Hobie Cat for your holidays!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Stay home, work hardly and don't take your family performance-cruising till you get 30k€ or more!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. These old IOR-cruisers boats are so uncomfortable that any sailing pleasure is lost!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. These old IOR-cruisers boats are an aberration concept and should be sinked as soon as possible.

    25.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. macintoshzoom
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 3
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    Location: antarctica

    macintoshzoom New Member

    The question is : Are old (1970-1980) I.O.R.-cruisers good for happy cruising on a budget?

    For about 10-15000 euros, do you feel that it's a valid option a 27' racer-cruiser (more cruiser than racer) developed from an ¼ ton I.O.R. successful racer, like the danish Granada 27 or the french Jouet 26, for summer cruising in Mediterranean (light winds)?
    Granada 27 Danish (500 units manufactured! plus about one hundred in Spain under license as "Noray 27": http://granada27.dk/Top/Granada27/Fotogalleri.htm , http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/werften/s/g/granada/index.htm .

    Jouet 26: http://remi.alcina.online.fr/hasard/hasard.htm

    I do not like racing but I appreciate a lot the "poetry" of the pure sailing and the voyaging at sea.

    I would like an X-Yachts (X-99), J/Boats (J/92S or J/100), Suspense (Archambault), or similar, all these at around 30k€, but for my tiny budget (10k€) but for my tiny budget these Granada 27 /Jouet 26 seems to suits me quite well.
    My program is 3 summer cruising months, my wife and our two kids.

    Are these IOR-cruisers really amusing to sail?
    It appears that they have an exquisite tiller feel, as french and danish magazines says (see the pdf extracts at http://granada27.dk/English/Granada27/Facts.htm (danish) and at http://remi.alcina.online.fr/hasard/essai-voilesetvoiliers.htm (french).

    It appears also that they are very tender till they reach about 30 degrees of heel, very bad in directional stability (deformed hulls!), difficult under spi in the breeze, rolling as dancers downwind and at mooring ...... but all that I can accept it if the feelings are worth, true exciting, safe and live sailing experience, which I hold to communicate to my young family.

    Can anyone give ratios for this boats?

    Thank you for your opinions!
    (Ok also in Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, English).
    If possible please send copy well to me to macintoshzoom at lavabit.com
     
  2. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Why not? There are many around there already. Just look for a sound, well built and maintained one.

    Here some estimated numbers for the Grenada 27, as per data in the pages you posted:

    INPUT (For the heavier version):
    Loa = 8,28 m
    Lh = 7,80 m
    Lwl = 6,40 m
    Bmax = 2,78 m
    Bwl = 2,50 m
    Draught T = 1,75 m
    Body draught Tc = 0,31 m
    Disp = 2720 kg
    Ballast = 1200 kg
    Sail area = 32 m2
    Mast height = 10,84 m
    Heeling Arm = 5,04 m
    Power = 9 KW


    OUTPUT
    Length/Beam Ratio (2Lwl + Lh)/3B = 2,47
    Lwl/Bwl Ratio Lwl/Bwl = 2,56
    Ballast/Disp Ratio W/Disp = 0,44
    Displacement/Length Ratio D/L = 289,41
    Sail Area/Disp. Ratio SA/D = 16,69
    Sail Area/Wetted surface SA/WS = 2,22
    Hull speed HSPD = 6,14 Kn
    Potential Maximum Speed PMS = 6,85 Kn
    Velocity Ratio VR = 1,12
    Capsize Safety Factor CSF = 2,01
    Motion Comfort Ratio MCR = 21,65
    Roll Period T = 2,44 Sec
    Roll Acceleration Acc = 0,11 G's
    Stability Index SI = 0,88
    Angle of Vanishing Stability AVS = 120 º
    Dellenbaugh Angle DA = 19,86 º



    Cheers.
     
  3. macintoshzoom
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 3
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    Location: antarctica

    macintoshzoom New Member

    Thank you Guillermo.
    Do you have at hand (or links to forum posts) ratios about some of these from the European market?
    e.g.:
    Jouet 26
    Etap 26
    First 25
    First 26
    First 27
    Dufour 1800
    Puma 26
    Trident 80
    Conati 26
    Jouet 760
    Kelt 8
    Noray 27
    ECUME DE MER
    SANGRIA
    POKER
    TONIC 23
    FANTASIA 27

    And how they compares with their low draught/lift keel sisterships:
    ETAP 26 QR
    KELT 7.60 DL
    FIRST 25 QR
    FIRST 27 DL
    JOUET 760 DL
    GIB SEA 76 DL
    KELT 8 DL

    And ratios about the X-99 (X-Yachts), J/100, j/92, j/105, J/109, Suspens, ideal holiday boats to me for around 30K€.

    Just give me any data that you really have at hand!
    Thank you!
     
  4. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 185, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval


  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    For day sailing with a crew IOR is fine,

    If you are into cruising with the family , or a small crew , or using a self steering an old CCA boat will be far more comfortable , and safer.

    Since its older , CCA boats are even less costly.

    FF
     
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