arctic ice increases 60%

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by rasorinc, Sep 11, 2013.

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  1. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    Micah what I'd find hilarious if it weren't so pathetic, is the headline in your second link, juxtaposed next to the image:

    right next to an image that starts off with a dramatic temperature rise [​IMG]

    Talk about cherry picking your data sets.

    ROTFLMAO!!


    Micah you too are one of the "true believers" for whom no data set is too bizarre as long as it conforms to your belief.
     
  2. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    A minor point, but rasorinc is the original poster; he is not the "thread owner". Only the forum moderator can close or delete a thread, though he has been known to do so if the OP requests it. (Hello Hoyt)
    Honesty about confessing to one's youthful foolishness does not, somehow, make one an expert in climatology.

    In your earlier post you warned us that the article was long. You were correct. The more I read, the more glassy-eyed I became, and the more I took to skimming paragraphs.

    Would you be so kind as to condense what he had to say into one or two paragraphs? Links to relevant scientific studies would also be appreciated.

    This is an anecdotal human interest story about how people reacted to some particular event. As a story it has absolutely no bearing on whether that event was important to our understanding of global climate.

    The one common feature to all apocalyptic predictions is how inaccurate they are. Those that are general and vague are useless because they have been used to "predict" many events over the last few millennia. While those that have specific dates and events reliably become self-evidently false.
     
  3. micah719
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    micah719 Plotting Dreamer

    "personal experiential claims are useless in science"

    Oh really. Then how the F does anybody observe anything, measure anything, falsify anything? Oh, that's right, the man isn't one of you, so he's out of consideration. If only he'd fabricated some balderdash and gotten with your program, he'd be fine. Hide the decline. Adjust urban heat islands down in the past and up in the present and hey presto, warming! Rely on people forgetting how stinkin' hot the 1930's were (there's only a few tons of archived newspapers). Are hockey sticks any good for shoveling snow?

    Actually I only logged back in to post this link:

    http://fukushimaupdate.com/2011-fuk...-health-implications-to-ice-associated-seals/

    Tomorrow (Tuesday 28th Jan 2014 AD) there's a live broadast, but since I
    a) do not have a propaganda unit/telescreen
    b) am not in Alaska
    I'll catch up with it on the web. C'ya later, 'Shima.
     
  4. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    As I've come to expect, Hoyt is half right and all wrong :)

    Overpumping of freshwater wells near the ocean (such as west of Miami) certainly has resulted in a faster incursion of seawater than would otherwise occur. But ocean levels are measurably rising, and the expectation is that the rate will increase. Saltwater incursion is inevitable.

    Why The City of Miami Is Doomed To Drown | ROLLING STONE

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Line graph that shows sea level change from 1950 to 2100. Data from 1950 to 2000 shows moderate sea level rise from approximately negative four inches to approximately two inches. For the 21st century, sea level change is projected by four scenarios: AR4, B1, A2, and A1F1. Under the AR4 scenario, sea level change would increase by approximately sixteen inches by the end of the century. Under the B1 scenario the projected rise is approximately 40 inches; under the A2 scenario, approximately 48 inches; and under A1F1, approximately 56 inches by 2100. Sea level change is projected to increase under all the scenarios.
     
  5. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Quote, please.

    Kindly show exactly where I have ever said that there has been no sea level increase, or retract.

    PDW
     
  6. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  7. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    By doing double blind sampling and analysis and using mathematics to validate the data set.

    NONE of which this guy did.

    And this is where you prove that this is about belief for you. You don't even see the absolutely ludicrously cherry picked data set.

    Let me ask you this - do you know what a high pass filter is?
    Do you know what a low pass filter is?

    Do you know what filter function was used by this guy in drawing his straight line "trend" conclusion?


    I suspect the answer to all three is: No.
     
  8. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    All the more reason for Floridians to be concerned. According to a reference in your Wikipedia link, southeast US may be subsiding at a rate of 1-2 mm / year. If you add that to the mid-level estimate in sea level rise of 36" by the end of century (my post above), Florida may be seeing an effective sea-level rise of 10-12mm/year (0.4"/yr). Good luck Miami!
     
  9. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    You missed the point. Sinking land does not equal rising ocean. Think of the North American plate as a large teeter totter. When the Great lakes area rebounds upwards, the Florida area rebounds downwards, putting parts of itself below the still normal sea level.
    There are a lot of things that can make a Floridian lose his patch of sand but global warming isn't one of them. If anything, Florida should see the exposed area grow due to the onset of global cooling.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...LING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html

    "A chilly Arctic summer has left 533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 29 per cent.
    The rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013."[​IMG]


    "Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html#ixzz2rgyakiOC
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"
     
  10. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  11. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Europe, Facing Economic Pain, May Ease Climate Rules | NEW YORK TIMES
     
  12. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    And you missed my point. Sinking land does not negate rising ocean. :rolleyes:
     
  13. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    And you missed my point.
    The ocean is not rising.
     
  14. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    Hoyte the person missing the point is you. with GPS satellites, it is relatively trivial to measure and differentiate subsidence and sea level rise. Florida is suffering from both and the data shows both phenomenon. You are the one conflating the two.

    You do realize that your cryosphere link shows a solid 20+% decrease in arctic sea ice in a mere 30 years right? from an annual median of 10 million sq miles to a medial of 8 million. And the interactive curve shows each successive year trending down - the curves are similar year to year but the trend is progressive reduction.

    Again the fact that you are offering this somehow as contravening evidence suggests that again your belief is being actually reinforced by data that contradicts your beliefs
     

  15. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Hoyt, I am baffled why is it so important to you that the ocean is not rising? Are you just trolling (my best guess), or are you really serious in thinking that the ocean is not rising (surely you're not that scientifically illiterate)?
     
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