Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by sharkeymarine, Jul 15, 2002.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Wow - looks like both people posted in that thread. Finall went to the printable view and searched for the posted by searace and by Bob Saccenti and stated to get the meat:

    Bob says that he "founded Apache Powerboats in 1978 when I started tooling my 21’, 33’ & 39’ boat line. I incorporated Apache Powerboats and went into production in 1980. At the same time I also owned and operated Race Headquarters, Inc., a custom Hi-Performance center and I also co-owned Hawk Marine Power.

    In 1982, I brought the Kramer’s into Apache as my partners (I had this reversed and thought Kramer started Apache and brought Bob in), sold my interest in Hawk Marine Power (interesting that it comes full circle) and absorbed Race Headquarters, its crew and all its equipment into Apache. The first order of business was to produce the baddest wave buster’s money could buy. Since the tooling for my new 39’ offshore was still months away from completion, I went to the King himself, Don Aronow, and made arrangements to purchase a new 41’ mold he had just completed. The first boat out of the mold was blue and tan and Benny called it “Warpath”. My original Race Headquarters crew rigged Warpath and off we went for sea trial. Ben and I ran Warpath offshore through some of the heaviest seas imaginable at over 90 miles per hour. Ben and I knew immediately that we had built a real winner. We entered Warpath in the APBA Open Class and won the Key West World Championship in 1984. The original factory team was Ben Kramer – Driver, Bob Saccenti – Throttles, and Tom Evans – Navigator. In 1985 we took Second in the Key West U.I.M. Worlds, with the red “Team Apache”.

    Ben and I were now racing around the world with APBA & U.I.M. to promote Apache Powerboats. Because of our demanding race schedule we decided to contract Bobby Moore to rig all of our 41’ production and to serve as Crew Chief on our race team. In 1985, I ended my partnership with the Kramer’s on a friendly note agreeing to share the name Apache. I called my company Apache Performance Boats; he kept my original name, Apache Powerboats. Even though we were now two separate companies, we continued to act as one, sharing boat show space and tooling. We also continued to race as a team for promotion of the name. In 1986, we won the National Championship and were awarded the coveted US1 in our “prototype” catamaran “Team Apache”. That was also the year we introduced the new 47’ triple engine Apache Superboat.

    In 1987, things started to fall apart. The Kramer’s had major legal problems and the government seized all their assets including Fort Apache Marina and Apache Powerboats. The government hand picked one of Ben’s employees to run the company while they completed their investigation. Some of Ben’s employees were involved with Ben’s problems, some left, and new people were hired. With the new star employee running things, the first order of his business was to disassemble the last 41’ Bobby Moore rigged and copy all measurements and systems and make jigs and templates to duplicate Bobby Moore’s genius (nothing like knowing your trade). Bobby Moore has never gotten over this to this day.

    Many years passed and it was business as usual for me. Around 1996, the government auctioned all the Kramer’s assets. The only thing they did not sell was the Florida Trademark for Apache and the Apache Powerboat name. I did not think about it at the time because my Apache Trademark, although slightly different, is a Federal Trademark. From time to time my attorney in Washington would inquire about the State trademark and was always told “it’s not for sale”. Well, SURPRISE – SURPRISE. After one such inquiry, I was advised that the same STAR EMPLOYEE had just purchased the Florida Trademark from the same “it’s not for sale” government for a couple hundred bucks. What a success story, the employee gets to own the company. Yeah.

    Now the real confusion.

    With Apache Powerboats & Apache Performance Boats already sharing the market, the old retired 41’ molds were purchased at auction for 12k and re-sold to a company in Ohio that advertised that they could build the “41’ Apache for half the price”. Also, the star employee moved to the other coast and started to produce boats by Xerox under another tribal name and when I wasn’t looking he slid a few Apache’s in for good measure. Personally, I think he should have named his company “High Dollar Lead Sleds, Inc.”. Additionally, in the early – mid 90’s, a Miami based company made a very, very bad copy of the 41’. They changed the bottom, cut the sheer, and the first time in the water the boat rolled in its first turn. The molds were stacked and stored in the sun and weather out in the yard to never be used again. Just recently those same molds were sold to an individual in Blountstown, Florida who is now saying he is the “New Apache”. What a joke. I wouldn’t use those molds for a flower pot.

    All of this would have surely brought tears to Geronimo’s eyes.

    Also, rumor has it that I sold out, died, left town, closed up and went out of business and so on. WRONG. NONE OF THE ABOVE

    All that I have written here can easily be verified and I know, I lived it.

    If you have any questions please call or fax me. I do better on the phone than the keyboard. The resin makes my fingers stick to the keys.

    Also, thanks to all the Apache owners who put the TLC and money into keeping their Apache in tip top shape and promoting the heritage.

    Best regards,

    Bob Saccenti"

    Looks like that thread will reach 77 pages by tommorow! I guess a simple question doesn't always have a simple answer :)
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And thanks again for the link to the offshore forums. Now I have two sets of forums to read everyday :)
  3. sharkeymarine
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 125
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 8
    Location: New Jersey

    sharkeymarine 2 Fins Up!!

    Guest, If you need more Message Boards, I have a page on my website that gives you plenty of LINKs to them including this one. Enjoy.......;)
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest


    There is no relationship between Apache Racing Team and Apache USA (who ever they are). Apache Racing Team is the manufacturers of the original Apache 41 and 47' powerboats. We also produce the 21 and Ben Kramer original 24 (never before seen in production).

    We build rocker bottom boats built for rough water. No steps here, but if we were to use steps, the Harry Schoal DDC would be tops on my list. Harry has proven himself and his designs. Frankie..... keep up the good work.

    For more information and employment opportunities contact:
    Apache Racing Team
    17617 Hwy 20 West
    Blountstown, FL 32424
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest


    show us a picture to prove you are doing anything
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 43
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 60
    Location: FLORIDA

    FRANKIEFRANKIE Junior Member

  7. sharkeymarine
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 125
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 8
    Location: New Jersey

    sharkeymarine 2 Fins Up!!

    The thread on OffshoreOnly is now @103 pages, 3,016 posts and almost 103,000 views!!! :eek: :eek:

    Due to some controversy over the trademark of Apache, at my discretion, I removed or changed the titles to certain links. I did not want to become a part of any infringement rights lawsuit.

    Some sites were offline and thier links have been removed. Nothing worse than having links that don't work, so I go back and check once in a while and delete those that have gone offline.
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest



    Mr. Todd Ciminno

    Hawk Power

    17617 Hwy 20 West

    Suite 6

    Blountstown, Florida 32424

    Re: Apache, Trademark # 706,228 registered October 25, 1960

    Dear Mr. Ciminno:

    Please be advised our firm represents Apache Marine, Inc. the owner of the registered trademark, Apache, captioned above. The trademark owned by Apache Marine, Inc. is protectable and enforceable.

    We have been advised that you have advertised in a boating publication that “Hawk Power” is the “Home of the new Apache”. In the advertisement there is a design of a boat. You and/or your company are infringing on our client’s federally registered trademark.

    In the event a lawsuit is filed to enforce the trademark and related rights the Lanham Act provides that Apache Marine, Inc. shall be entitled to recover from the violator, profits, any damages sustained and the costs of the action. A court may assess triple damages after you and/or your company have received notice of the infringement violation of Apache Marine, Inc.’s trademark. To minimize damages, you must immediately cease and discontinue copying and/or distributing product, which use or incorporate Apache in your advertisements or product.

    Please provide a written statement to the undersigned within seven business days that you will discontinue to copy, use, sell and/or distribute products, which use and/or incorporate Apache in your products and/or advertisements. If you have any questions you may wish to consult with a qualified patent and/or trademark attorney to review

    Mr. Todd Ciminno

    December 9, 2002

    Page 2

    the Apache trademark captioned above. Otherwise please contact me in writing within seven business days to avoid further action by our client.

    Thank you.

    Very truly yours,

    Elliot S. Wiczer
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, Well, Apache Racing Team in Blountstown Fl, says they build the 41 Cat, I am sorry, they do not.............I own this mold, Todd was supposed to buy the mold from me and he never did. As to the ad that is above, that is from another site, the 25 is sold, the 41 has two interested buyers. Sorry, Todd, but I asked you several times to remove my boat from your website...............
    41 apache Cat mold, interested ? 1-866-997-0600
  10. timucin
    Joined: Mar 2003
    Posts: 6
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10

    timucin Junior Member

    well everybody is here. hi all
  11. sharkeymarine
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 125
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 8
    Location: New Jersey

    sharkeymarine 2 Fins Up!!


    Their site is now up online. Their link is under the Manufacturers page of my site: Check it out... They did a real nice job on it.....
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Apache Offshore Powerboats In Delraqy is the real Apache

    Well I was just wandering around when my girlfriend said I should look at this. My name is Thad Allen, I own Apache Offshore Powerboats, THE REAL ONE. I purchased the name and what remaing assetts there were from Bobby Sacentti and Eric Froberg. We have the rights on a federal level to the name and logo and we are the ones with the former Apache employees from days gone by.
    There is a lot a stuff flying around about Apache that just is so turned around, I can honestly say its quite humurous. What I intend to do, and Believe me when I say this, is to Make the best Apache ever built, the best customer service and warranty, and the machine that started it all will be brought back to life with a 2004 new upgrade. OUR HULL IS THE SAME As THE ORIGINAL WARPATH, FROM THE RUB RAIL DOWN, and man will it handle those 4-6 days like no other.
    There have been changes iin the corporate structure for the better and I have fully funded this company for a long term committment. Try our website and forum at apacheusa.com Give us a chance, I promise you will be impressed by how Apache has grown. State of the art facilities and hardware and a committment from all empoloyees to work as a team to bring this sleeping giant, back to the top. Thanks for your time, and I hope to see some of you guys around the Apache sight. Thanks

    Thaddeus Allen
    Pres./CEO Apache Offshore Powerboats
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Apache Is Back !!!

    Is there any affilation between Thad Allen / ApacheUSA.com & Todd Cimmino Hawk Power Searace.com ?
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Word on the street is that Mr Thad Allen has lost the name rights of Apache! Not sure of exact details yet......but they will now be called Quantum Power Boats! And the soap opera continues!!!

  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Will the real slim shady please stand up,please stand up!!!
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.