Any point in scow bow without canting keel?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by pironiero, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Scows heel and lengthen WL, as noted. However, save sensible effieincy or VMG, construction with boards canted to fit travel mode makes sense, but necessary? I doubt it; IMO natch. Way back on Geneva, seems I rode a wood C-boat had a dagger, which was a single and vertical....but most have twins, canted...
     
  2. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

  3. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Pironiero, short but good video...memories...
    An aside...I used to really dislike scows...no bow, no bow...but have changed...now I think, let in the game, they have a future.
    And, compared to ingenious foilers, the niche we need.
     
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  4. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

  5. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Thanks, will look up later. Raining here and have saved up some indoor chores...like cleaning high ceiling fan...I thought I mentioned, I used to dislike scows. If no bow, no bow...but have changed. These ancient (Dutch) rigs have lots we have not tapped, and are more sailing than foilers...

    Looks like video was taken on Geneva off Fontana. In land lake associateion began there, I think, even though Johnson in White Bear Lake, MN. made scows...mostly C boats I think.

    And, now, I wonder, am I in videos? Number 6?...
    No!...It is looking like an A-Boat (Es were newer); I only sailed on a C-Boat...
    And, had, as I recall single dagger.
    No dual flippies. (most scow out boards had short grip to move up or down...
     
  6. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

    I'm currently thinking about building a dinghy, show is one of the variants im choosing from
     
  7. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    FWIW, Simple is always best, especially at the outset. For example, what fix is as good as the original done well. Occham's Razor refined.

    OK, you and I are not architects and we also do not have accesss to many items, so, as it may sound goofy, begin backwards...
    Storage...where and what to do with rig when not sailing?
    Most builders do not realize how much sanding goes into watercraft...and eventually become discouraged...even quit.
    I, for one, have had (rebuilt) a number of boats...and each was unique in problems and fixes.
    The latest is the MO (see avatar)...
    For whatever reasons, I have always wanted an outrigger like the Malibu Outrigger...but have had a succession of keelers.
    This time, I decided to bit the bullet...intending to use unused or soon to be scrapped hulls, crafted anew. I wanted to by a large hull and trailer it. Hoping to acquire a set of Tornado Hull from Mr. Upchurch here, but could not locate a trailer...must have been fate.
    Ran into person who lived withing 4 hours of here who had a number of Hobiecat hull, AND, old trailer...basically hooking up trailer lights so I could haul...and for essentially free.
    My idea included using MO's original plans...as guide...and ran into a problem, Hobiecat hulls cannot handle mast without stays, which I did not know...but we were already committed...
    It went, with lots of custom work and is still going...which I love. 20 footer, 9' beam, 200 square feet of sail on long spars, using lots of innovation...and is fun/fast. All only 300 lbs all up! Even have 2sets spare tires.
    Back to beginning. have storage and had place to do work...garage/sail off trailer. New foam outrigger or aka coming up and large cockpit. Both PIA fussy but not hard.

    In short, plan ahead for storage and crafting...some harbors have channel ingress etc and require motors. Workspace...

    A scow type dinghy might be a toughie...rounded smooth....might be best to acquire used Butterfly...

    If interested in outrigger...Gary Dierking's text is good start...and decision re tacking or shunter....

    and sail plan/paddling-motoring elec/gas and how to do simply etc.

    Cost of lofting sail will run about $230+ not something one should do...imo.

    Hope this helps...
     
  8. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

    yes im working it out right now actually
     
  9. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    The "lee boards"... or the levered "daggers" (Had to note, I could not dredge up the term "lee boards" yesterday.)

    Also, noted your location...so maybe limited access to certain goods...?

    Also, noted date (I am slow) of your posted scow video...
    I was dinkin off Fontana WI on a scow circa 1957

    Am old, but not that old...

    Below is off pic of Gnarly...aka hull is to be replaced...foam, using local 2-inch "blue board" insulation (Dow) big-box store. Will trim with electric wire and glass...reduces all up weight by 50 lbs or so and adds to tippiness. GnarlyAAA.jpg
     
  10. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

    Like what?
     
  11. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

    Not bad weight reduction for the size i presume
     
  12. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Sorry was more or less provincial idea...had in mind the used items most reject or let sit...Hexaratchets, Butterfly scow rig, etc.

    Weight loss is my"rough guess-ti-mate."
    Hobiecat 16 hulls are heavy...the plan I have is foam/glue faired, plus shear web, glass/resin/4-6061T pylons.
    I kinda figure the boyancy will rise proportionately too.

    All is hope. but should be close.
     
  13. pironiero
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    pironiero Senior Member

    Nah man, I have everything I need here; at first I thought getting some carbon fibre would be a trouble because we have only one manufacturer here, but I've spoken to them, and it's alright, they'll hook me up when I'll be ready.

    Hope rebuild works out for you
     
  14. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    A FWIW for Pironiero or anyone interested...One thing, if you plan to do spars...for me spruce was spendy, so I searched out bottom damaged carbon windsurfer spars, got two...shipping was major cost, but not bad and cheaper than the spruce...stress cracked at bases...no other damage...and made long wood ferrules to mate with 6061T pipe to lengthen...
    Suckers do "do it."
    Boom is 16" and holds clew and tack in position (loose footed) and the very-long spar which hoists sail luff is 26" and flexes like spruce as planned. Spills gusts like a charm...just like in this planner...

    The aka or outrigger will lose its wood decking, just recalled, will have to build spot to place electrice source for Minnkota (light) seawater motor...uses a wet battery which will convert fo 18650 pack when I can.
     

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  15. Dolfiman
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Here is a new Mini650, the Floki 650 by Antoine Mainfray/Atelier interface, with a pram bow said "diamond shape" , fixed keel and no water ballast, but foils instead to have more power and help trim the boat and prevent pitch poling. A general shape inspired by the Fireball dinghy, with multi chine developable panels, also propose to amateur builders : you can buy the plans. And last but not least, build with using bamboo fiber. Antoine think that such simple design can be competitive. Will be ready for the Mini transat 2023.
    https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-fran...-amateur-e34c7508-5eee-11ea-b696-f0da82636ff9
     
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