Any New Sailboat Class Rule Ideas Out There?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Paul Scott, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. Paul Scott
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    Location: Spokane, Wa

    Paul Scott Senior Member

    So, reading Chris's 3 rule (well, he told us 2 of them) class over on foiler design, I remembered that I too came up with a sailboat rule, a few years ago, which was:

    1) 10 sq m of wind/sun motive something (like rotors, sails, wings, solar panels, kites, handheld windsurfing rigs etc.)

    2) 1 sailor

    3) Had to fit in a horizontal diamond that was 16' long, and 10' wide on the beach

    4) water draft no more of 1 metre

    5) airdraft no more than 50 feet (or whatever kites are doing these days)

    6) everything could move as long as you could hold it together inside the box for a period of 5 minutes while being measured on the beach.

    7) racing to take place in 0-30K

    Went nowhere. But it was fun to think up. My rational was that somebody had to step up to windsurfers and kites.

    Anybody have any other notions like this? Whether it went anywhere or not. Might be fun to chew on.

    Paul:p
     
  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Rule

    Paul, interesting idea. I don't particularly like the limitation on beam. The fastest sailboats possible are going square or over square. I'm almost finished a design for a 12' multihull that is 17' wide-and needs to be.
    Why not unrestriced beam or a beam limited by the beam of Hydroptere in proportion to its length: LOA 59' Beam 80' multiple=1.36 ?
    I'm not arguing against this-just curious: 1) why one meter water draft? 2) what is the rationale for any restrictions greater than the sail area restrictions in the classes below?


    speed sailing classes:

    World Speed Sailing Records can be established in the following classes:

    10 sq m (up to and including 10 sq m)
    A Class (from 10 sq m up to and including 150 sq ft (13.93 sq m))
    B Class (from 150 sq ft up to and including 235 sq ft (21.84 sq m))
    C Class (from 235 sq ft up to and including 300 sq ft (27.88 sq m))
    D Class (over 300 sq ft)
     
  3. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Just an observation, but you seem to be wanting to define the cart before you identify the horse. Class rules imply more than one boat, therefore you are trying to incite the masses to build not one but at least a few examples that fit the rules.

    I don't think rules (even interesting and brief) are an attractive enough incentive to spawn rampant development. I think you have to build something first to get people's attention and then open the field to challengers. The innovation and performance of the prototype is the thing needed to attract people to the rules.

    I'm not saying that every contest has to be about speed, foiling or wings - it could be about cost restrictions, material restrictions, different venues like RAID sailing or cruising.

    In many years of product development I've come to some conclusions - most people are able to clearly define what they don't like far more effectively than asking them to define what they do want. Building a prototype to stimulate discussions of "what's wrong" generates clear direction far more effectively than asking people to develop a design brief meeting their needs. I call this "Ready, Fire, Aim" development.

    Having people see something real is the catalyst necessary to get them really thinking about what "they" would do to improve upon it. I think the same thing applies to your class rules question. Build a boat, show it to people and then say, "Here, how could you do better, given these rules."

    Defining what YOU want to build as that prototype is a little more of a challenge. Ideas with the best chance of success are answers to problems YOU want to solve. If YOU have wanted a cheap, high performance ride that can be cartopped, you will put a huge amount of effort into getting it right. Trying to define a product based on committee input or marketing surveys isn't as effective. Find an itch you want to scratch and go with it. Chances are someone else is probably trying to scratch the same itch, and that is why people will be attracted to the idea. Basically, good ideas are those that fill specific, immediate real need. Mark Zuckerberg started Facebook to help himself socially with the ladies at Harvard - and it turned out that a few more people had the same need.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  4. Paul Scott
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    Paul Scott Senior Member

    Doug and Cut, My little stab at a rule was an attempt (or gedanken experiment aimed at small craft) to keep costs down, encourage different classes to compete against each other, encouraging other classes to try a modification that a sailor could try out and see how it worked (like a wing on a one design, or foils, etc.), as long as they fit inside the rubric, which could be fun and friendly, trying to encourage moveable parts (Like Smyth's raid tri), or steering with sails, novel sail and wing plans, like vertical gaff/battens, which are not encouraged at all by current classes. So you could try a boat from scratch, or if it fit, bring what you have. And see if you could get speed without massive width, but minimal width. In other words, little amas. Or no amas. Bruce foils? Like the catamaran Windsurfer that Woods (was that his name?) did a few decades ago. Or like the proa windsurfer I was messing around with that I meant to try to turn into a sit down model, but life got in the way. Or a tunnel hull trapeze boat.

    One of those 'seemed obvious to me and no one else' moments.

    I realized that the basic dimensions might need massaging, but lack of response resulted in it drifting away. I realize you could just get together with other classes to see what happens, but in the US? This seemed a relaxed way to get the AYRS crowd, and others talking and sailing.

    But it did get me to wondering what other ideas were floating around out there and why.
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I've thought of a rule that would ,maybe, adopt the SA restrictions of the speed sailing classes (or your rule,hopefully modified). But it would have a big difference-aimed at trying to get serious interest and in producing tangible results: how about the idea of finding someone or a group of people, organizations or whatever that could come of with a prize-$200-500,000(or more) for the fastest sailboat around a specific course. This kind of thing might not be as hard to do as getting a few people interested in funding there own development with no reward possible no matter what. It could work....
     

  6. Paul Scott
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    Location: Spokane, Wa

    Paul Scott Senior Member

    I think that would work within the present SA/speed classes, esp. given that a few folks are doing it for little or no $$$ already.

    Wish I had the dough, though...

    Paul
     
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