Any hope for this one?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by afteryou, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    afteryou Junior Member

    I checked out the speed calculator and yeah I'm lost. I can't make any sense out it. It did not load right and was kinda chopped off I think I'm missing something :confused:
     
  2. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

  3. MatthewDS
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Juneau, Alaska

    MatthewDS Senior Member

    Something that springs to mind...

    Is where you are going in such a hurry? With the prices of salmon and diesel being what they are, every troller I have ever met has had more time than money.

    That said, there are quite a few small bartender boats converted to hand trollers around in Southeast, one thing that just might meet many of your requirements is the 29 ft model converted to trolling. It would certainly be seaworthy, self-bailing, and fast, possibly not as fuel efficient, and wouldn't likely hold thousands of pounds of fish.

    I didn't see if you wanted to power troll, or hand troll, but it sounds like you are trying to go power trolling on a hand trolling budget.

    Your goals of speed and fish capacity match up with the large semi-displacement high horse power power trollers in the area, and your fuel efficiency and sea-worthiness requirements seem to match up with the slow, wooden double enders that the hand trollers use.

    Is that about right?
     
  4. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    afteryou Junior Member

    MatthewDS, I have been a troller for some twelve years. Two of those were hand trolling. I have been fishing longer than that. I also hold a Dungeness crab permit. If I was trying to go fishing on a budget I would not be talking about designing a boat from scratch. Many trollers in our fleet do not make very much money. But that does not mean there is not money to be made if you work for it.:)

    This thought was conceived with the idea of quick turn arounds for Chum and Pink salmon. Daily unloading is important with round fish. No more than 48 hours at the most. It is also intended to get me from one bight to another before the next one dies. It is intended to make quick work of moving at tide changes. Money my friend, time is money. If I have to buy 10 more gallons of fuel to save myself an hour or more running time thats cheap compared to the potential income made in that time. Especially comming out of the anchorage at first light. Speed = sleep, sleep = money:D
     
  5. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    Back in the day we gillnetters went through our Go-Fast stage..fuel was cheap, fish prices were high and Japan was going to buy our fish forever. Now the fleet cruises the 20 miles to the fishing grounds at a speed just a little faster then when they pulled out of their stall...;).

    MM
     
  6. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    afteryou Junior Member

    While that is the norm that is not entirely accurate. I can name several boats out of the gillnet fleet that like to go fast for the reasons I just stated. Most of those are highliners. the Alaskan Assassin is one fine example :)
     
  7. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    He's an example alright...lol...but not one I'd pick to emulate.

    MM
     
  8. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    afteryou Junior Member

    I don't know the guy, I just know of him. :)
     
  9. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    afteryou Junior Member

  10. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    afteryou Junior Member

    MatthewDS, I got so tied up with the fact that you assumed me a broke greenhorn that I completely missed a good point that you brought up :D

    Quote “Your goals of speed and fish capacity match up with the large semi-displacement high horsepower power trollers in the area, and your fuel efficiency and sea-worthiness requirements seem to match up with the slow, wooden double enders that the hand trollers use.”

    There are many large trollers who have the horsepower that I want. I just want to put that power in a small boat that will go faster rather than a large slow boat that takes half the season just to cover maintenance costs. Make sense? The cost of owning a small boat is a whole lot less than a bigger one. The cost of everything increases with the size of the boat. Sense you post here you most likely understand that. :) Thanks for your input.

    A note on fuel consumption. It seems that most of you assume that because I want the boat to be able to go fast that I will spend all my time with the throttle wide open. This boat would be completely capable of dinking around at just over 5kn just like everybody else. If there were no hurry I wouldn’t be in one. If there were no fish to catch I wouldn’t be burning a ton of fuel blasting around. And finally if the price of fuel went so high as to be a real threat, a boat like I’m proposing would work very nicely with a little 60hp Isuzu. :p

    Anybody checkout that boat yet?
     
  11. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    To be honest she looks a little broke down.:( Asking $35K...you can do a lot better then that. Old gillnetters may not be the way to go right now...permit prices are high and that always raises boat prices...wheither they deserve it or not. These might be a little closer to what you're looking for.

    http://juneau.craigslist.org/boa/3568876046.html

    http://juneau.craigslist.org/boa/3585419555.html

    http://juneau.craigslist.org/boa/3552379013.html

    http://juneau.craigslist.org/boa/3577944372.html

    MM
     
  12. parkland
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: canada

    parkland Senior Member


    A while back, I rented a 35 ft 8 ton steel boat, that ran 9 knots or so at 1800 RPM and burned about a gallon an hour with a 60 hp marinized isuzu.

    I commercial fished a while back, but we used gill nets, and pulled them over the bow using a hydraulic net lifter, on a 32 ft boat. It had a 225 outboard, and burned gas like crazy. We did set the nets over the back, but I don't 100% understand what it would be like to do your job.

    The size of boat you speak of, sounds like it would be challenging to include all the equipment you want, even without asking for planing speed power.

    With all that said,
    My crazy mind, if in your position, I would do the following:

    Build a deck boat, catamaran style, and use these for storage:
    [​IMG]

    And I'd install 3 engines in the front, in pods which "hung" from deck beams, ( sit just above water line) which allowed a slight rotation, allowing the prop shafts to be lowered in or out of the water. This would allow standard inboard style transmissions and shafts to be used, but would have the benefit on an outboard. The shafts would go to the rear of the boat, so you could lift a propellor out of the water if needed.

    I'd use something like the isuzu for the middle engine, and the 2 outer engines could be chev 5.7 or ford 7.4's or whatever, something powerful to run once in a while when required. The rest of the time, the shaft and propellor would sit above the water.
     
  13. parkland
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: canada

    parkland Senior Member

    Here is a crazy design I came up with a while ago. Different from anything I think you'd want, but shows the engine "pods" I described.

    Basically, I wanted to build engine pods, which would sit on the deck, be mounted by a large pin on each side, and the back of the pods would have the prop shaft inside a tube welded to the pod, extending to the rear of the boat.

    The pod would rotate a few degrees allowing the shaft to be lowered into the water, or raised out of the water.

    Basically use inboard engine parts, but provide the benefits of an outboard.

    But really heavy on the front end, thats for sure.
    Would be a real issue installing 3 engines on a 20-30 ft lol.
     

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  14. parkland
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: canada

    parkland Senior Member

    PS, if I remember correctly, those insulated tubs, each one would hold about 1500 lbs of fish with ice mixed in, so you'd need 3 tubs, 1 for ice, and 2 to pack with fish and ice. Or something similar to that.
    Or do you plan to have an ice making machine?
    I've never seen so much be expected from such a small boat.
    And you want to live on it as well?

    Maybe if I saw a boat even remotely similar to what you want, I could begin to understand.

    Fishing boats I know of that stay out for a week or 2 at a time are 50 ft long, run 7-8 knots tops, and are still cramped for space. And thats using fresh lake water to make ice.
     

  15. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    afteryou Junior Member

    I'm sorry I guess I should have specified that never in a million years would I pay 35g for that P.O.S. However I do believe that the boat as it sits on that crappy trailer already meets quite a few of my demands. With a complete gut out and minimum changes it has potential to meet nearly all of them. Well that might be a little optimistic I guess, but quite a few of them anyway.:rolleyes:

    I assure you I have seen all the boats listed in SECL. I posted the link to the one I did because it seemed to mostly provide what I asked for, and Tolly built it 1980 for ..:D.. sake. Now all we have to do is figure out how much it'll pack safely, how much diesel Hp it would take to reach the speeds I'm looking for and see if I'll meet my fuel goal of averaging less than 1.5gph while fishing. Chum and Pink fishing is done at a very slow speed, so slow that we have to drag extra crap behind the boat to keep the RPM's high enough to charge the battery's. So I am hopeful that it may meet that goal.

    The Tolly is pretty heavy I'm sure but in a rebuild a lot of that weight could go away. The flying bridge is one example.:)
     
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