Any hope for this one?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by afteryou, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Stumble Senior Member

    I just don't see a way to meet all these specs. There are too many contrary goals so somewhere something is going to have to give. Like Tad mentioned its pretty much impossible to have the same hull efficient at both 4kn and 18kn. You have different power demands, different hull shape requirements, ect.

    Combine this with the need for offshore, bad weather capability... I think you need to prioritize what's important and put the different goals in order of importance. Something needs to drop from the list to make it doable in my (non-designer) eyes.
     
  2. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    midnitmike Senior Member

    A classic case of trying to stuff 10lbs of ***** into a 5lb bag....it won't fit no matter how hard you push.

    The one hull that comes closest to his general requirements is in my mind built by Sea Hawk Marine.

    MM
     
  3. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    afteryou Junior Member

    I thought you guy's might like to see a few trollers.
     

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  4. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    afteryou Junior Member

    Do you have a picture or a link? Thanks :)
     
  5. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

  6. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    midnitmike Senior Member

    You can't mistake these boats...nice high bow, forward cabins and an open cockpit layout made for working. There are a few in Haines and even more in Juneau. They come in a variety of lengths 22, 25, 29 and configurations I/B, I/O, O/B. You won't find many for sale...I can only guess at the reason..:)

    MM
     

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  7. sean9c
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    sean9c Senior Member

    The only way to make it work is add length. Even then to get your cruise speed you're likely looking at a hard chine planing shape. I wouldn't think you'd want to spend all of your trolling time with the uncomfortable motion of that boat at trolling speeds.
     
  8. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    afteryou Junior Member

    MM, you’re getting pretty warm there. Little bit like a Parker?

    sean9c, I have conceded that I must add some length I am now thinking 26 to 28’ but if I go any longer I won’t really be getting what I’m looking for out of the deal. I think a beamy boat in that range should do what I want if it was well thought out. I don't think the hard chine will be as bad as your thinking we spend 90% of our time with our gear deployed this slows the rolling motion a lot. On top of that we use "towed paravanes" (thanks Tad :D ) and this all but stops the roll. The bucking motion on the other hand cannot be helped I guess.
     
  9. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    midnitmike Senior Member

    I just googled Parker and yeah they look a lot alike.

    MM
     
  10. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    afteryou Junior Member

    All right, nobody wants to really take a crack at this? I am not just “pissin’ in the wind” here. I want to take a serious look at this and see what can be done. Like I said before the fleet is thirty to a hundred plus years old. It’s tried and true but it’s outdated. It’s time to design a twenty first century troller. My hope is that I can compile enough information to have a set of plans drawn up. Maybe the plans are already out there waiting to be modified.

    Someday maybe somebody would see me screaming by and be jealous enough to have me build them one. :)

    Speaking of jealous what really got me thinking about having a smaller fast boat was watching the charter guys zip by at twenty five to thirty knots on days when I wondering If I should go hide around the corner. The Guides around me mostly use 30’ Glacier Bay cats as well as older Tomcats. They seem to ride pretty good out on the big blue or the big grey in my case.

    Thanks for all your input guys.
     
  11. midnitmike
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    midnitmike Senior Member

    That's not fair.

    You've put together some rather contradictory requirements and then asked us to defy physics by building a small, light weight, fast, economical floating box that can pack ten thousand pounds. And to top it all off you want to be able to run down Icy Straits out past Inian Island regardless of the weather.

    If there is a boat that can do all that I want one too.

    MM
     
  12. afteryou
    Joined: May 2012
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    afteryou Junior Member

    I realize that I am asking for too much, but if I set the bar low enough to be able to get all that I want I would have set it to low. Like buying a used car if they take your first offer you offered too much. :p

    So lets start at the beginning how much horsepower would it take to get a five ton twenty six foot boat to plane out?

    Rather than worry about the amount of fuel consumption. What engine would be the most efficient at running speed as well as be able to take loafing about at an idle all day, day in and day out? Maybe two engines is the only answer? A large outboard for running and a small inboard diesel for fishing and running the hydraulics

    Thanks again
     
  13. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    yipster designer

    [​IMG]
    here's a 2x250hp graph that gives some idea
     
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  14. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    midnitmike Senior Member

    I agree and I love a challenge too but I can't wrap my head around what I know to be a totally illogical statement and expect to find an answer.

    For instance: We know that an outboard is out of the question...no commercial troller in his right mind would ever consider strapping one on the back of his boat. It's mere presence in the work space is intolerable...now throw in spinning props, tangled gear, cut lines and exhaust fumes and it quickly becomes appearant this isn't the best possible solution. Just about every sport boat guy in the fleet has to deal with this, but they're out there for the fun of it. A commercial troller on the other hand will do everything he can to keep fish and gear out of the wheel. A) Because it costs him time if he gets tangled up and B) Because it can cost him money when he looses a $200 fish. Either way he's not a happy camper. So for the sake of our argument can we agree that outboards or I/O are off the table?

    So lets start at the beginning how much horsepower would it take to get a five ton twenty six foot boat to plane out?

    After many years in the business I'm pretty sure you can get a brick to fly (I mean plane) If you put enough HP in it, but that still doesn't answer your question. Can you take a woefully overloaded 20' boat and get it to plane? Probably...the better question might be can you afford it? I know you said we shouldn't worry about fuel consumption, but at almost $5 a gal every potential customer is going to have some concern about operating costs. As a commercial endeavor I know for a fact that economical operation is an especially desireable feature in todays business environment. Apart from that we still have no information concerning the potential hull design (not even a napkin drawing) to go by other then your earlier description of a wide body hull with a pointy bit on the end...not much to go on there buddy.

    I just don't see how anyone can offer a solution to such ambigious and often contradictory questions.

    MM
     

  15. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    What's the speed for? It isn’t going to catch any fish but it will increase build and overhead costs way out of proportion. Look around you, no high-speed commercial trollers in sight.....there's a reason for this.....

    Every fishery in the world that undertakes an arms race ends up in trouble. Did you know that your government is currently buying up BC troll licences so that you might have a few more fish to catch.....In the 1970-80's BC trollers were doing really well and built a big fleet of large efficient freezer boats that could fish independently for long periods. Then more fish were allocated to other groups and the troll fishery almost disappeared.....today no one can live from one troll licence. I have a friend with a big troller who makes a living longlining halibut and trolling tuna offshore, salmon trolling season is incidental and sometimes lasts 2 weeks.

    Maine lobster fishermen have built lots of bigger and faster boats, now they can run more pots and catch more lobsters. But demand is down and production up, so the price has dropped and fishermen are tiing up the boat rather than go out and make enough to cover fuel.

    A sustainable fishery is workable only by minimizing effort and overhead. My answers to this are the TimberCoast Troller (22') and the Pearson 28' troller. Both available in aluminum or plywood construction.

    5055844651_48cd12349c_b.jpg

    P28view02.jpg

    Trollerview.jpg
     
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