Any alternative for this kind of 20'container transport?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Lemans, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Belgium

    Lemans Lemans

    'So in between the time they put the load on the boat and the time it takes to rig up the container to add strength, the boat is fully loaded but weakly structured? In the waves and all?'

    You do have a point. Perhaps I wrongly assume that containers are always loaded in calm waters like docs and harbours...., -however, these are the conditions in my case.
    I have two options for the 'add on' structure. Fixed on the container before loading or a fixed structure on the cat. Containers are constructed according to normalized dimensions so in case of a structure on the cat, space between the boat and container is small an can be eliminated with a few hard wooden blocks, before - full - releasing the 25,000kg on the boat.
    It's not so that the boat needs the container to be strong enough in unloaded condition.
     
  2. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I was just going by the photo in the OP, which looks to be open water.
     
  3. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Belgium

    Lemans Lemans

    Changes on my vessel design due to remarks from the propulsion guys.
    It's no longer possible to use 2 dimensional formed steal plates...
    The overall length is increased up to 14,5 meters and the vessel is now 5,10 meters wide.
    I left the idea of using petrol industrial engines as insufficient on power output. Lack of power can be dangerous in difficult circumstances.
    Two 90 HP diesels are chosen to replace the two 35HP engines.

    I like to build up the hull out of plywood, a core material and fibreglass finish.

    First drawing shows 40mm thick plywood as frame, second drawing shows the inner 6mm plywood skin, third drawing shows the
    structural polyurethane hard foam and the last shows the 3mm fibreglass finish with a impregnated 18mm plywood as floor/sealing panel.

    Any thoughts?The element is 4m long and 1,35m wide.
     

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  4. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    sounds like you getting close to what I have posted in my gallery so

    you may be on the right track. :D

    Have a bunch of steel beams would make it easy to adapt any sort of motor, from outboard but more likely a vehicle's gas or diesel with Thai dragon tail style prop as that would probably be most efficient and cheapest install. Able to swing a big prop but also able to pivot up for shallow draft.

    I should mention the default beams I'm showing would be steel, so they could be easily cut, angled and re-welded if someone wanted a platform closer to water
     
  5. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Belgium

    Lemans Lemans

    Weekend cruiser

    Hi Squidly-Diddly,

    I have visited your gallery and I noticed you are also a fan of multi purpose vessels.
    I think it was Petros who started the idea of transforming an old container into a cabin.
    Knowing that I'm going of track here, but I could not resist to draw what came up in my mind today.
    The result of reconnecting elements from the boat and a few simple 'add-ons' gives me a funny
    'small-river' weekend cruiser.
     

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  6. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    Nice project

    Without doing the sums, I would have thought that steel was the cheapest way of building a barge. Even if you have to use mulitple flat plates in order to get a good hullform, it should be ok to do.

    I like the idea of the barge which when loaded works as a displacement vessel, but when unladen works as a catamaran.

    The first sketch you did in this idea was good, however I would deepen the pontoons, so that and use a steeper angle for the underside, say 60 degrees, not the 15 degrees you were showing. If you go down the plywood and fiberglass route, it may start to get a bit pricey, all the epoxy resin, I think there is a reason why most barges are steel.

    How do you unload the container, via a crane? Do you use rollers onto a wharf or beach.

    The sketch you drew on 5 March looks very good, I would be tempted to keep same overall dimensions, make it out of steel and simplify it.

    What distance does each container need to travel, is there much money gained by going very fast?

    aside.. that little weekend traveller looks cute. I think the platfrom needs to be cut back at the bows, otherwise it will be swimming with water when even the smallest wave hits, plus add a little wave deflector at the front of that platfrom, and it would be perfect
     
  7. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Belgium

    Lemans Lemans

    Hi Peter,

    'Nice project'
    Thanks, as usual, it's origin is a problem that needs to be solved.

    'Without doing the sums, I would have thought that steel was the cheapest way of building a barge.'
    I did calculate as close as possible the costs of different building materials. See the attached file.
    The 'ferro-cement' price includes the needed steel and wires for the frame.
    The steel price does not includes laser or water-jet cutting and bending.
    Quit possible I build the Weekend Traveller modules in different materials. A nice way of getting familiar with the different building techniques.
    Front module in ferro-cement, the centre module in composites and the rear module in steel.
    The Weekend Traveller can be in the water with-inn 6 months.


    'all the epoxy resin',
    I was thinking of using polyester instead of epoxy.

    'I think there is a reason why most barges are steel.'
    I believe they are more abuse resistant. I hope the crane-man will pay a little more attention with a 50$ note in his pocket! ;-)

    'How do you unload the container, via a crane? Do you use rollers onto a wharf or beach.'
    90% by crane and probably rollers and spuds in the other 10%.

    'What distance does each container need to travel, is there much money gained by going very fast?'
    No, one trip may take week. The boats main purpose is to carry one container for 300miles, less than 10 times a year.

    'aside.. that little weekend traveller looks cute.'

    Oh, I also find it very attractive and don't know why....
     

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  8. phrogjlf@yahoo
    Joined: May 2006
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    Location: Texas

    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    I know, dead thread... Not necessarily a dead concept, though...

    Maybe a simplistic approach? Take a used shipping container flatbed truck, strip the suspension off the frame and add bulkheads and an outer hull? Maybe flip the cab around and look forward over the box, like a large freighter, with the motor and drive below the cab, then you could pull up, onto a beach, unload and another truck could pull it up, on and go...? Kind of a poor-mans LSV?
     
  9. graywolf
    Joined: Dec 2014
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    Location: USA

    graywolf Junior Member

    Why reinvent the wheel? Europe is full of motor barges, just buy one of those and ship it over.

    Weather in the Gulf of Mexico can be as bad as anywhere in the world, but it tends to happen less often with more warning than, say, the North Sea. Also it sounds like you will be coasting so not a problem running inshore during a blow.

    Also, is there a reason to limit it to a half container? Why not a full container or two half containers? Of course there may be some reason I am not aware of for needing the boat to be shorter.

    Over here in the USA, barges tend to be strings of motorless vessels pushed by a tug (I always wonder why they still refer to those as a tow). The comment, you said your English was not up to, was referring to chasing down one of those barges that had broken lose from the string.
     
  10. phrogjlf@yahoo
    Joined: May 2006
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    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Size matters... I'm now working with the concept to have 2 boats. One for a single 20 ft container and another for two 20 ft containers, with capacity for up to one 45 ft HC.

    Versatility. Can't always guarantee 2-container trip, but there will most likely be more demand for a single 20 ft container delivery, far more often than the larger one.

    As for a canal barge, they aren't designed as a beach-lander, to deliver containers to beaches, private islands, loading ramps, whatever. A landing craft can be designed to do far more than a barge can.

    Push ashore, drop the ramp and roll out a container. Pull it well above expected tides and surges, let the folks load for their move, unload from their move, whatever.
     
  11. specmar
    Joined: Jul 2008
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    Location: OREGON

    specmar Junior Member

    Landing craft

    Possibly a landing craft type of vessel, similar to Specmar designs.
     

  12. phrogjlf@yahoo
    Joined: May 2006
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    Location: Texas

    phrogjlf@yahoo JL Frusha

    Not bad, but the 62' would need to be lengthened and shortened to make either.

    Width is about right, considering the height of a container adds ~8' from deck height. Take a 20 ft container, add something like the military M1022, plus something to pull it, for the short version, then add room for a 2nd 20' container and M1022 set, for the longer version.

    I was figuring to shorten that slightly, by having the forward container set to unlock and pull out, but backed up closer, by having the aft unit on 1/2 of the M1022 and the forward end up on blocks.

    Larger one should also be able to handle, say, 45' container and moving system.

    Raise the pilot house and have it so the pilothouse sits above the cargo, rather than behind it.

    I was thinking something more like a 1/2-scale PASCAT lander, with an arch and the pilothouse somewhat centered, above the hull, for best overall sight, rather than an aft cabin. Pilothouse could be something like a truck cab, with sleeper, to allow for a head and a small galley, as well as bunk space, when weather interrupts and requires riding it out.

    Primarily, I would say, short-range. One day, round trip, but potentially capable of delivering one container one day, then another the next, then return to base. Kind of a short-haul truck for the sea, or even large lakes. Pick up at public ramp, deliver to private beach.
     
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