Any alternative for this kind of 20'container transport?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Lemans, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Well, having been a tow boat operator, my first thought was simply tow it. These things (depending on what's in it) often float, usually somewhere around awash. If speed is not an issue, you could achieve an impressive profit margin. You're windage would approach zero. Be sure and mark or flag it appropriately as it's visibility will approach zero as well.

    -Tom
     
  2. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Just a guess, but they don't float because they are watertight, it's the cargo itself that floats and keeps the container from sinking. For sure there is no guarantee the containers won't leak.
     
  3. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    What about using a flat barge 25'x10 or so, with exposed rollers for loading... A drop down transom or bow, and either push, or pull it around. This seems easier than putting them together in one package. And the cost to build the platform should be pretty minimal.
     
  4. RonL
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    RonL Junior Member

    Just a quick comment, a spud barge similar to what Stumble described, spuds on at least the corners of one end. Then a little creative thought about the oilfield gen pole trucks, one might figure a method of lifting and levering a box onto the dock. A lot of what if conditions will have to be considered.

    RonL
     
  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Is the boat supposed to be used in one place on one river, or will it have to go up and down the coast to various rivers?

    In the picture there's maybe 4 more of those local craft waiting to get loaded. Are you going to need a fleet of these boats? Does the customer want a boat so he can haul just his container and let the local craft haul the others?

    How often is the boat going to be used? Will it be used only for transporting containers to shore? If there is a lot of time between arrivals of containers where the boat isn't used much in between hauling containers, it would help to be of a design to perform other uses in the meantime.

    These Irish cattle carriers could be enlarged to fit the purpose, plus be a general carrier for anything else like logs, vehicles, crops, etc.

    http://irishwaterwayshistory.com/ab...the-fergus/the-cattle-carriers-of-crovraghan/

    [​IMG]
     
  6. TrustedShips
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    TrustedShips Mr.

    The following points came to mind:

    (1) With container load = 25 tonnes x 1.5 = 37.5 tonnes for a 20' container (base area = 6.094 x 2.54 = 15.5 m^2), the deck strengthening has to be more than 2.5 per m^2.

    (2) The existing boats carry single containers may be because the size of the boats that they use traditionally in that region is that small. Would it not be more economical to carry say 10 containers in one boat. That way the container logistics operator would be interested in buying a boat which suits his operations.

    (3) Would it not be difficult to maneuver a box shaped boat carrying tonnes of load in shallow draft, especially in case of a flooded river and cases where rivers take sharp turns.

    (4) How about carrying say four to six container trailers on top of the pontoon rather than carrying a single container to address the problem of loading-unloading.

    (5) How about a loading unloading mechanism of transverse rail mounted trollies?

    (6) What about the freight insurers? How many of them approve these things.

    (7) What was the concept of rollers. I did not understand. :p
     
  7. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Lemans Lemans

    @RonL
    'I would think that unless there is a significant savings in materials in your location (assuming Belgium or near) many of the smaller shipyards along the Gulf Coast might produce a finished product that would meet any requirements you have.'

    I like to build the first right under my nose. I have my industrial connections here and crossing the Atlantic a few times has his price too. If a second one is needed, it will be build on location.

    'I have chased a few break away barges in the Mississippi Sound. I get tired just remembering'
    My English let me down on this one...

    @Submarine Tom
    Well, having been a tow boat operator, my first thought was simply tow it.

    Funny you mentioned this, it was my first thought too. Wrapping it watertight...still need a boat to tow and a crane to lift it out the water. It need some floats too to prevent flipping over.
    Second thought...I need something else.


    @Stumble
    'What about using a flat barge 25'x10 or so, with exposed rollers for loading... A drop down transom or bow, and either push, or pull it around. This seems easier than putting them together in one package. And the cost to build the platform should be pretty minimal.'

    Load is 25,000kg(+safety factor). So it should be twice as large and twice as wide. The platform idea and drop down transom is something to remember.

    @RonL
    'spuds on at least the corners of one end'. ' the oilfield gen pole trucks'

    I googled it but that made me not smarter. :)

    @SamSam
    'Is the boat supposed to be used in one place on one river, or will it have to go up and down the coast to various rivers?'

    It will have to go up and down the coast and will carry his load as far as his draft allows.

    'Does the customer want a boat so he can haul just his container....'
    Right on it. …
    'and let the local craft haul the others?How often is the boat going to be used?' He want, first and for all, a solution for his shipping problem. The boat will be used less than 10 times a year.

    'If there is a lot of time between arrivals of containers where the boat isn't used much in between hauling containers, it would help to be of a design to perform other uses in the meantime.'
    Never thought of that. I ask around if there's a need for other tasks.

    @TrustedShips

    ' With container load = 25 tonnes x 1.5 = 37.5 tonnes for a 20' container (base area = 6.094 x 2.54 = 15.5 m^2), the deck strengthening has to be more than 2.5 per m^2.'

    That's why I asked if anyone uses the container as structural part.

    'The existing boats carry single containers may be because the size of the boats that they use traditionally in that region is that small. Would it not be more economical to carry say 10 containers in one boat. That way the container logistics operator would be interested in buying a boat which suits his operations.'
    The boats main purpose is to carry one container for 300miles, less than 10 times a year.

    'Would it not be difficult to manoeuvre a box shaped boat carrying tonnes of load in shallow draft, especially in case of a flooded river and cases where rivers take sharp turns.'
    I see a design with two engines whit reverse. Power still to be determinate.

    'How about a loading unloading mechanism of transverse rail mounted trollies?'
    Such a system needs more than solid steal build vessel. At this point, all construction materials are considered. Plywood / composites panels / steal / ferro cement / aluminium / polyester

    'What about the freight insurers? How many of them approve these things.'
    Not an issue at this point. Boat and cargo belongs to one person.
     
  8. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Click my handle for my gallery and see my modular barge concept.

    Notice you could reposition the hulls or add or subtract beams as needed, depending on weight of cargo.

    Big flat deck, and reasonably sleek hulls, would make it easy to transport box on deck to some distant location, unload contents of cargo out of the box and onto deck for transfer to shore or other vessels, without needing to pick whole loaded box up and off barge, at the distant location.
     
  9. TrustedShips
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    TrustedShips Mr.

    Every option is open. I just love it.... :)
     
  10. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Lemans Lemans

    12.75 m long 5.80m wide
     

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  11. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Why the pontoons? They would seem to increase draft, complicate construction, hamper maneuverability, and possibly lessen stability.
     
  12. Lemans
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Lemans Lemans

    @samsam
    'Why the pontoons? They would seem to increase draft, complicate construction, hamper manoeuvrability, and possibly lessen stability.'


    Full loaded it act as an displacement vessel. Empty it act as a catamaran.
    Probably naive thinking I know...
    Maybe I can expect very different speed envelops in loaded and unloaded condition even with low powered engines.(25 to 35 HP each).
    I stated earlier that speed is not an issue but if I can gain some time just by choosing a specific hull, why not?
    Second reason is to provide space for the engines.
     

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  13. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Lemans,

    A spud is a type of anchor. In its simpleist form, they are just polls that slide up and down through a collar. When the boat is in position, you drop the spuds, they dig into the bottom, and hold the boat in position. Try a google search for spud barge, the tall colums are the spuds.

    Since the boat is going to be used so rarely, I even more advise that you just build a barge, and tow it into position. It doesn't make sence to spend that much on engines for a boat that will be moved into position, then left for a month or more. Instead you could build the barges cheap, and use one boat with propulsion to drag multiples around, or do other work.

    As for hull shape. I would stick with a flat barge. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, here. Flat bottom barges work great, are well known, and don't take much skill to build. Just some flat plate, a welding machine, and maybe some I-beams.

    As for material, I would recommend steel. It is cheap, easy to weld and fix, and both strong, and impact resistant. Banging containers around isn't really suitable for wood, since all it takes is a corner coming down hard from a crane, and you punched through the deck, no matter how well built.

    As for the castor idea. It is the same process that cargo planes use to load and unload cargo. Take a look at cargocastors.com . Basically they are mounted to the floor, either by bolting or welding, and allow cargo to be easily pushed on and off, so long as the bottom of the container is flat. They are mounted every foot or so in a grid, and allow the cargo to just roll on and off, with minimal manpower.
     
  14. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    looks like the system the locals worked out is pretty good, use what you have. Though load is a bit high. Perhaps if you designed a similar looking boat made with local materials, but with the ability to drop the container lower down inside the hull, you would get a lot of customers...they would be familiar with that type of boat.

    I would consider designing a catamaran, less materials required. IT would have two heavy cross beams that you can lock the shipping containers to (adding stiffness to the whole assembly). IF the container is mounted with the door to the back they could back the boat up to a dock to unload the container without a crane. If the catamaran had a deck it would also be useful without a container, or you can take an old container and cut some windows in it and have a cabin cruiser. With outboard motors they are easy to remove when the boat is untended to prevent theft, in many places locking it up only results in the door/lock getting badly damaged when they rip you off.
     

  15. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Ok, I get it. I guess if you're going 2-3000 miles a year, extra speed can't hurt.
     
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