Anchor winches

Just pullin yer leg Frosty
Speaking of Sunsailor's, I had the amusing experience of watching some reneters aboard a large houseboat try to drop the pick one afternoon. Being newcomers, they went with the more is better principal and dropped two anchors: One off the bow, the other of the transom. Then they proceeded to reverse around the bay in some sort of attempt to get a bite. They got hold alright - of two other anchors.
This whirling about eventually wound up with 3 boats all thoroughly tied together in a mass of twisted chain, rope and anchors. Still... no harm was done.... until the thunderstorm hit ....

 

guess most comes in as rain via the winch, wet rope aint dry exactly eighter
made a small cap for the winch, have to glass the build in bottom and fitting lose top half of the bulkhead together
i want mirror/service hatch watertight and check how other boats acces anchorchain lockers

 

Well, the mirror in mine was simply hinged at the top and was certainly not watertight. I had to venture up there fairly regularly to knock down the pile of chain when I pulled the anchor up from deeper water. The extreme rake of the bow allowed it to sit, rather than falling down to the bottom, and would eventually pile up to the point of jamming the chain as it came in.

How about a simple flap, attached to the inside of the bulkhead that would cover the opening. Any splashes would simply run down and drip into the bottom of the locker. If it was flexible - could even just be plastic - you'd just shove it aside when you wanted access. As per red line on your drawing.

Also, where I've circled would appear to be a possible point of ingress... are you sure the water's coming from the anchor, not just leaking in from elsewhere?

 

Honestly, you guys.

Anchors are no longer necessary. All the proper boats use GPS and IPS (or similar) to hold position dynamically. You give the digital command "Stay here" and the boat obliges. Come sunup you press the button, breakfast is served (champagne and orange juice) and you beach yourself on the harbour wall.

WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE?

Pericles

 

just back but have to wait for monday here to get a usb cable, infra red or bleutooth connection to download the phone pics to pc
gps got nicked long ago and not sure this phone has one but autopilot and anchoralarm on the navsoft present,
keeping the boat in position that way remains untried, was trying the phone's voice command and more
when you Pericles started mentioning voice control also, o boy just saw a raincoat on tv with control buttons in its sleves
things were fine on the boat but a flap behind the mirror wont keep the damp out during open winter storage,
for now i used some draft tape behind the mirror but have to use rubbers i guess
btw Will, i do like that starter picture in post 1 with the plank over the rest

 

Pericles yeah but you would need an efficient propellor system that could use small engines and some sort of bow thruster.

 

Just posted elsewhere about the Lazarra 74, which has four IPS pods and Auto GPS positioning so that it holds station without bowthrusters. and the boat walks sideways to dock, side on.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=159912&highlight=pericles#post159912

Other test reports:

http://powerandmotoryacht.com/engines/0205volvopentaIPS/

http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20041101132742mbynews.html

http://www.fourwinns.com/advan_ips.php

Engine idling speeds with IPS can propel the boat at 7-8 knots, so a low speed mode is under development. On the Lazarra 74, 5000lbs in weight were saved over conventional shafts and internal space increased. C'mon lottery, choose my numbers, you know I deserve to win.

Pericles

 

Why though, would you bother with the added complexity of 4 complete drive systems when Volvo has larger systems almost ready for release that would allow a twin installation?
Obvious answer - amazing publicity for Lazarra....
Personally, I don't like IPS. There's absolutely no doubting the systems efficiency gains over conventional shafts. But there's no real performance gain over sterndrives. Volvo could surely developed larger legs for WAY less money. Further, they don't offer trim and are simply too vulnerable for my liking. Sure, station holding is a neat capability, but again could have been accomplished by other means. And in reality, other than to show off at the marina, how often are you likley to use it....?

Yipster - I'm still not clear as to why the flap wouldn't work... What's open during winter storage?

 

Will,

"Why though, would you bother with the added complexity of 4 complete drive systems when Volvo has larger systems almost ready for release that would allow a twin installation?"

Timing! The Lazarra was started long before the IPS 750 and 850 will come into production. Even with the four IPS units in the Lazarra the weight saving over two conventional shaft drives is 5000lbs, plus increased internal space for the owners.

I think it's been mentioned elsewhere at this site just how ultra conservative and traditional some marine folks can be. IPS offers better fuel economy. Stern drives cannot match the sharp handling at speed of IPS equipped vessels. An Express that turns like a runabout. 68 dB-A at WOT. Progress is about development. Perhaps the next Lazarra will be fitted with two IPS 850 units?

Regards,

Pericles

 

Will,

Whether we like the IPS is not really the issue. Volvo has started something of a revolution that is just now getting underway. The promise is of lighter, more fuel efficient, quieter, much more maneuverable power systems that take up less volume in the boat and make both boat design and building easier. Other manufacturers are getting into the game with their own variations. As with all revolutions, there will be some shakeout and some versions will fall by the wayside. In a sense, these systems are a bit like an outboard. That is, you buy the whole power system as a single unit from one manufacturer instead from many sources which requires the designer and builder to deal with all kinds of problems in supply, compatibility and fitting them all together.

Having driven a boat equipped with IPS, I can say that, if the final installed cost were not a big issue, I'd surely opt for a system like this. The forward facing props are an issue but I'm not sure just how much of a problem they might be. I'm never going to have that problem since such boats are way out of my range.

 

There are MANY advantages that IPS ( and Merc's Zeus of course) can lay claim to. If it weren't for the vulnerability issue, I'd be 100% in favour of them - even if they do cost a fortune compared to other alternatives. And of course, you are quite right Tom - whether I like them or not, they appear to be here to stay: and indeed my reluctance to employ a system that is so vulnerable to collision is merely a statement of my own position. I regularly like to cruise skinny waters, so I'd be equally hesitant about having a boat with unprotected shafts. For those who simply hop from marina to marina... no problem

I wouldn't entirely concede that IPS can provide sharper handling than sterndrives. Almost all of the tests that I've read to date suggest that they do handle far better than shafts - albeit with some loss of that 'glued to the water' feeling that you get from a well sorted shaft drive boat. Many testers have in fact stated that they feel more like a sterndrive boat to drive. There are undeniable advantages in terms of low speed manouvering - though again, these have always been available through the use of thrusters and the like.

 

There's no reason that they should not feel something like a stern drive since they are close cousins. One difference is that the computer adjusts the thrust angles for what they call a "true turn" in maneuvers. What this means is that the angle of heel in a turn always matches the requirement there is zero side force on the passengers. Other boats can match this at some speed but not across a full range of speed. Makes for a different ride.

I don't have to pay for busted drive shafts or torn up outdrives, especially those fancy Arnesens (sp?) so can't speak about the cost of grounding repairs of any of these. The ISP is designed to sheer off if it hits anything strong enough to tear it out of the boat. That way, there is only a drive unit replacement to do and nothing to do to the boat. Hard to say which costs more.

Don't know how these new systems will pan out over time but they are interesting. I do find the fly by wire thing a little scary but it seems to be here to stay in many of the new big boats, regardless of drive system.

 

Tom, I haven't priced an IPS pod - but I do recall seeing a replacement cost of 80K somewhere. I'll happily stand corrected of course....

I see no reason why features like the variable thrust angle can't be incorporated into other drive systems (I'm assuming that you're referring to the way the outside pod turns less than the inside pod during a turn...). No doubt we will in time.....

I can't find the thread right now, but I posted a bunch of pics someplace arounf here about an expensive, brand new boat that featured fully computerised controls. It ran up the rocks at full tilt during sea trials because HAL took over.....
I share your reticence in trusting them - though they've been doing it for years in planes.... then again, planes are generally better looked after and don't have to operate in salt water...

 

Will,

Skinny water cruising favours water jets as far as minimal draft is concerned. The Pump Jet from http://www.schottel.de/eng/r_produkte/SPJ/uebersicht.htm is a rather interesting version, if perhaps very expensive. It does away with the need for thrusters. I don't think they are for us.

A surface piercing drive such as Sea Fury http://www.seafury.com/ and others, do have minimal exposure, but require thrusters for easier manoeurving.

A Variable Surface Drive as offered by http://www.yellowfin.com/VSDTechnology.asp permits the boat to beach as the
blades fold up like flower. http://www.yellowfin.com/pr_shipnboat.pdf

The final option is that used by undergraduates at Cambridge. I give you the quant pole. http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&sa=N

http://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/college_life/student_life/societies/punt/content/quant.jpeg

As an after thought, we seemed to have strayed far from anchor winches. My apologies to all concerned.

Regards,

Pericles

 

Yes - if only 'we' could get past the often quite hoorendous low-mid range speed inefficiencies that come with jets I think there'd be simply no other alternative that could match them.
All my shallow water stuff is at low speed - like sneaking up a secluded creek. For this, outboards, or sterndrives are just fine, if not perfect. I also like to anchor in only a few feet of water quite often.

And as for me being a conservative has-been, I do believe it was I who originally introduced the Yellowfin to these boards. They're a long way off taking the boating world by storm, but they certainly show enormous promise.

And we aren't really too far off the subject.... let the tide go out on your IPS boat and they'll wedge themselves firmly in the mud.... you'll be anchored for sure!!

I'm off on the boat for a week - see you all when I get back