an unsinkable tub??

Dear Garry, there are sailboats offered for sale at aprox. that price. OK - I'd might want to spend more than 5K, - but I want to do it anyhow.
What I want to know is - are there any people who would know more than me on the subject?
Thanks, Hearthstone.
By the by - a single hull submarine should do nicely?? Any sites for surplus submarines?

 

I just can't see this nice dream sink -
If I were you I'd try this idea:
Get a small, old and inexpensive sailboat and attach a foam-filled, 1 foot in diameter plastic sleeve around it.
You'll get extra stability plus a good-enough level of "unsinkability".
This tub will be rather slow, but if it doesn't really matter to you...

 

Well, let's see what a salling budget would look like. A used 23-25 foot boat $2500.00 . Rice and beans for a month $60.00. Canned vegatables and spam? for a month $75.00. A year supply of food comes to $1620.00 plus the boat $4120.00 . Basic but realistic in my experience. There are no surpluses for goodies, but fishing and odd jobs can make up for it. How much confort do you need?

 

Something of tough material such as metal for bashability; with inherent flooded positive buoyancy (foam or sealed spaces); keel or ballast or shape to ensure self righting ability; propulsion using a form of renewable energy; sufficient storage space for food/water/comforts for long trips; for 5K and ready made!
An old ships lifeboat with a rig and keel fitted, comes to mind. Many of these have been done before and could be obtained for this kind of price...

 

Dear Interlude, this sounds very interesting. Any links on the subject anywhere?
Thnx, HS.

 

Also - thanks "gonzo" for the budget suggestion!
HS.

 

one man's answer

There was a fellow in the US (where else would he be?) whose answer to that question was to motorise (with a 6.5L GM turbodiesel) and turn into an amphibian a stainless steel milk tanker, the kind you usually see being hauled down the highway by an eighteen-wheeler. Novel concept, something to get your teeth into (calcium joke, there).

 

That was sure a head-turner, and I don't think the machine would sink, but I wonder if it wouldn't pasteurize the captain and any passengers in a rough sea?

 

What about a converted lifeboat? Not you old fashioned open rowing dinghy type, but one of those fully enclosed, diesel engined jobs. You'd need to make significant alterations - like extra fuel & water tankage and of course accomodation changes, addition of navigation equipment etc - but at leat you'd be starting off with something that is (virtually) unsinkable and they can be found in all shapes and sizes. I'd be very surprised if older ones weren't available on the 2nd hand market every now and again...
But me - I'd rather fly!

 

Hi Hearthstone
I have tried to find a second hand ships lifeboat, or converted lifeboat through the internet brokers - no luck. You need to look around, ask around dockyards (maritime marine and navy) where typically these boats end up lying in corners for years. Check the areas local classified ads (maybe through the internet). A converted ships lifeboat with sails might also be found...

 

If I would not use sail on this "ships lifeboat", would I need more keel? If something turned me upside down without an extra keel, would I turn upside up again?
What sizes do these "ships lifeboats" come? Is there any literature on them anywhere?
Thanx, Hearthstone.

 

The shape of the new type ships lifeboats have large rounded deck/superstructures which are designed to give it self-righting properties. I think they come in about 30 ft, lots of volume. Anyone know links to info??

 

Found on google.com search: http://www.greben.hr/life_gr_free.html
for technical details of free-fall ships lifeboats...

 

Tradeoffs

hearthstone;

I think your desire to avoid petrochemicals is admirable but unrealistic. You have to make a tradeoff between supplies (food and water) and fuel. If you were a rubber ducky you could float around the Pacific Ocean indefinitely and eventually get where you want to go, but you have to eat and drink on the way and that takes supplies which add weight and require volume. This requires that you make your vessel larger and as you consume supplies it changes your mass balance and affects your self righting ability. For example, water is heavy, so you mount your fresh water tank low in the boat. At 1 gallon per day (2X the minimum for survival) you will need 365 gallons or 3,044 lbs of water per year. As you consume this weight of water, your center of gravity gets higher, so you may need to add ballast to maintain stability when the tank is empty. Next, you will need to increase buoyancy to float the weight of the ballast when the water tank is full. A small amount of fuel and a water maker may weigh less and consume less internal volume than the fresh water required for the journey. Likewise, if you can shorten the trip from years to months you can reduce food supplies. There are many compromised and trade-off to be made and rulling out petrochemicals entirely puts you into a narrow corner of the trade space.

Sails and solar power initially seam attractive because it appears you are getting propulsion and power for free. However, sails wear out, they require maintenance and eventually replacement and they need to be tended, sometimes in the worst weather imaginable. You can't just go below deck and let the storm do its worst and assume that your boat will self right when it is all over. Self righting boats are designed to survive a rollover but are not intended to rollover without damage. Even the Coast Guards self righting motor life boats will loose antennas and sometimes even windows if they get rolled. In a power boat your best bet is to keep the bow pointed into the storm, with a piloyhouse you can do this and keep dry. With an autopilot you can do this and sleep. Most sailboats run from the storm when it gets too rough, often getting blown many miles off course. Ever heard of one step forward and two steps backwards?

Solar panels cost a lot and produce a small amount of power. Even with the entire deck covered (which would cost a lot more than $5K) you couldn't get enough power to run a small PC, power the running lights and cabin lights and run a macerator toilet and if you did cover the entire deck where would you walk to tend the sails? ANother problem, sails tend to shade solar panels, reducing power output. Solar panels also wear our. Over their life, individual cells will stop producing power and eventually (in a few years) you will need to replace all the panel$. You will also require a substantial battery bank to maintain power through long periods of overcast (or worse) conditions. Keep in mind that batteries have a finite life also and will need to be replaced periodically. All this dips into your sailing kitty.

Enclosing an old lifeboat, or starting with a totally enclosed lifeboat (TEL) http://www.boats.dt.navy.mil/pg2/TELSOLAS.htm is probably your best approach, but adapting a sail to a TEL will be difficult. They don't have cockpits approporate for tending sails. In addition, I have never seen an operable TEL that was cheap (or I would have bought it). I was looking at turning a used TEL into a dive boat a couple of years ago. It was about 20 years old and badly in need of paint and an engine overhaul, but the asking price was US $25K.

If you want to build it yourself and keep cost down you might want to consider a Ferro-Cement boat. It is about the cheapest approach however it tends to be heavy, doesn't tollerate damage well and doesn't have good resale value mainly because it is difficult to survey and hidden problems can be catastrophic. It would probable be cheaper to consider a used Ferro-Cement boat but then your taking your chances on a strangers workmanship. For a good example, go to http://www.yachtworld.com and search for a 36 foot long, Manufacturer - "Sampson Ketch". Nice boat for US $7K.

If you decide to go with a sail, I would recommend a Junk sail. They are easy to reef single handed, cheap and easy to build / repair (see http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/junk/tutorial.html and http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~trent/junk.html) and since they have full length battons the loads in the fabric are evenly distributed so the fabric can be thinner and they tollerate damage better.

Regards;
Mike Schooley

 

Thank you all!

Thank you all guys for sharing your knowledge! I will give the matter a rest for the time being, am busy otherwise, but hope to be able to use what I might have learned here.
Sincerely - Mr. Jan Hearthstone.