An off topic poll... (Do larger boat co.'s build better boats?)

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Nomad, May 8, 2002.

?

Do larger boat co.'s build better boats?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
  2. No

    29 vote(s)
    90.6%
  3. Should I care (click here and prepare for a life of embarssment!!)

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. Nomad
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 462
    Likes: 2, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Florida

    Nomad Senior Member

    An off topic poll......................

    Just seein' how you guys think.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
    Posts: 3,590
    Likes: 130, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2369
    Location: Australia

    Willallison Senior Member

    can I vote: some do, some don't!?!:D
     
  3. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    That's probably the most fair answer. Some very small builders do great work, and so do some large builders.

    What I will be interested in watching during the next few years is how new expensive large-scale technologies might affect the ability of small scale builders to compete price, environmental regulation, and composite-quality-wise with larger builders using things like on-site 3D CNC, VEC, etc. Will the shift between skilled hands-on labor and skilled hands-on-technology make it more difficult for small scale startups in the near future?
     
  4. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
    Posts: 3,590
    Likes: 130, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2369
    Location: Australia

    Willallison Senior Member

    yep
     
  5. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    I suppose I should have said "impossible" as "more difficult" is too much of an understatement to make it a question. On a positive note, unlike with cars, there will always be a small market for truly custom high quality boats, but I enjoy the variety available to the general boat buyer too. I'm not a car buff, but whenever I talk with one, especially those older than myself, I hear about all the American car companies which no longer exist and their triumphs and what made them unique - I hope production boats don't conglomerate and homogenize quite as much in the years to come.
     
  6. Nomad
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 462
    Likes: 2, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Florida

    Nomad Senior Member

    Sorry for the lack of "some do-some don't" I tryed to go back and change it but I can't.
     
  7. Nomad
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 462
    Likes: 2, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Florida

    Nomad Senior Member

    And I was reffering to production boats in general (bayliner, searay, contender, etc.)
     
  8. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,388
    Likes: 44, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 699
    Location: Smithtown, New York, USA

    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    The reviews of New Zealand boatbuilding in Professional BoatBuilder cite their commitment to methods and tooling that allow for one-off projects and continual redesign/reinvention as a key to their success. I'm bullish on putting together pre-cut kits that allow small builders anywhere in the world to build a boat with good quality control, and this can be done working with a supplier like ATL composites.
     
  9. trouty

    trouty Guest

    Some Do - Some Dont.

    As a "generalisation" the larger companys (Bruswick's mexicanbuilt bayliner is perhaps an example), tend to build crap designed for the first time boat buyer entering the market with little to no boating knowledge IMHO.

    Often - they look for a design or technology "edge" with which to market there boats ...such as "no wood" etc etc then setabout making mass produced junk with a fancy marketing campaign and work on a high volume low vaue product...

    Other smaller "custom builders" tend to build better quality boats - in lower volumes, for higher markups to more discerning buyers who've already been thru the learning curve with mass produced junk, and are ready to make a sound investment in a better quality boat that just might retain some of it's original purchase value.

    Yes there is a lot of value in top qualiy designed and produced kits (VCP's) Vessel Construction packages) from the likes of naval architects e.g. http://www.curran.com.au

    Using such technology smaller builders can capitalise on world quality technology, and design to turn out a superior product.

    Will the buyers accept such changes in purchasing habits?...

    That remains to be seen...

    Sorry it's not a yes no answer - there is no easy answer.

    On area 'bigger" companys COULD steal the march on say the smaller local builder - is in TQM - total Quality management.

    Look at the advances the Japanese have made in auto manufacturing...not a lot fails on Japanese cars these days - compared to the products we had 25 years ago..

    Big boat manufacturers COULD develop boat manufacture / design to this level conceivably, and then no small builder could compete.

    Who knows what the future holds!

    I'd say fibreglass is a dead duck - roto moulded polyethylene technology combined with CAD CAM will start to produce mouldes etc straight off the computer and all the old hand skills of making plugs and moulds will dissapear IMHO..

    It's just too labour intensive..

    Go back to the way boats started being built in timber, skin first frames inserted after, and this can be done off computers so easy now...

    We've gone the full circle - done a MARU in fact - from skin first to frames first and back to skin first....

    You'll have a 3D computer model sent to a plastics mould making fatory that ha CAM laser hardened plastic moulds made. You know, where the laser hardens a vat of moulten plastic, bye shooting the rays at each point in the design at the same time the surface layer is lowered leaving behind a 3D original.

    It'll be this way for mould making - one mould and from that one mould many roto moulded polyethylene hulls will be flopped out

    There will be almost no labour content it'll all be computer design.

    In fact the "accessorising" will be done at the mould making stage by computer too - and fishboxes etc will added in at that time.

    The mould will be a re useable thing that can be melted down and re created in a new size, shape, form, accessories etc all bye CNC laser.

    When we get to this stage - the small guys days are up I think!

    Cheers!
     
  10. Nomad
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 462
    Likes: 2, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Florida

    Nomad Senior Member

    Trouty, I am with you 99.9%
     
  11. JR-Shine
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 341
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 54
    Location: Vero Beach, FL

    JR-Shine SHINE

    Its all about the size of the market a builder is going after. If Brunswick decided tomorrow to make the most high quality boat possible using the best materials, they would have to increase their prices by, I dont know maybe 300%. They would sell a fraction of what they do now, and they would effectively become a custom shop - after they fired a whole bunch of employees and shut down all but one factory. Not everyone can afford the best, so not everyone builds the best.

    I think there are a number of things the big "low quality" boat companies could do to make their boats a lot better without adding much in cost, but thats their decision. The more consumers know (using sites like this), the higher quality they will demand from builders.

    Everone should own a bayliner to start. ;) Just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2004
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It will be interesting to see over the next few years how Brunswick digests the Hatteras acquisition. imho, Hatteras cannot absorb the overhead without cutting back on quality. Likewise Brunswick needs profits from Hatteras to maintain the stock price. Ultimately this the quandry faced by any large boat builder.
     
  13. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
    Posts: 661
    Likes: 16, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 84
    Location: Sunny Ft Lauderdale Fla

    War Whoop Senior Member

    I will answer this way... One has a choice Businessman or Boat builder you can not be both... I have seen it tried...
     
  14. JR-Shine
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 341
    Likes: 4, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 54
    Location: Vero Beach, FL

    JR-Shine SHINE

    When it has worked in the past, its probably becuase there was one of each working together.
     

  15. War Whoop
    Joined: Jun 2003
    Posts: 661
    Likes: 16, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 84
    Location: Sunny Ft Lauderdale Fla

    War Whoop Senior Member

    Agreed JR That may work.

    Best Regards
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.