An odd question from an ex-sailor about boat design

Fantasy Boat

Gonzo said, "To have oil the planet needs a history similar to Earth. That would include all the geological eras with the exact fauna and flora."

So the question is: Why does it (the geological history) have to behave in the same fashion as Earth? Is a similar geo history the only way for petro chemicals to be derived? Does not the potential for creating one's own science fiction include the use of wonderment in the style and creative aspects of the story-telling? Our limited understanding of how things work can be processed in an entirely dfferent way, potentially resulting in discoveries beneficial to us all.

This is essentially a what-if exercise. What-if we weren't constrained by our own limitations?

Chris

 

Science fiction is fiction based on solid scientific principles. Fantasy is more like you are describing: a loose construct without logical integrity.

 

Fiction

Based on who's solid scientific principles?

How about scientific principles about which you haven't yet been made aware? Would that argument be unscientific, or just unscientific to you because you didn't know of the potential?

Free your mind, Bubba, and the rest will follow.

Chris

 

OK, here's my weigh-in (sorry to be coming into this late):

Viking ships are out. These vessels were purpose-designed as raiders--very fast under oar and reasonable under sail though only off-wind (they rowed to windward), but they are very light and fragile, and very hard to sail. It is a tribute to Vikings' sailing abilities that they served their purpose at all.

Junk rigs--absolutely. Don't require high quality cloth construction, are more weatherly than they look and are easily repaired at sea. We are just learing that huge fleets of VERY large junks (600+ feet) sailed the waters of China, India and Africa before Columbus.

Hulls would likely be carvel-planked wood; much like Western boats or Chinese junks. Probably not outriggers or multihulls; in large sizes these boats have a large amount of surface area (read: cost and labor) for their cargo space.

While your strandees could be expected to have cars and modern technology; I question their ability to process, store and transport crude oil--let alone get it out of the ground--positing that stone-age natives would have it to trade doesn't seem believable to me. Exploration, production, refinement and transport of crude oil is a very technology-intensive--and very dangerous--business.

I'd also question their willingness to build petroleum-fired ships of any kind; whatever petroleum resources they have with them are obviously extremely limited, and ANYTHING which could be done with alternative energy sources surely would be.

Were it me, I'd have them thinking about how they are going to transit their "economy" from salvaged modern mechanical to sustainable energy, native-materialed locally built stuff for their grandchildrens' civilization. FWIW, the obvious "green" slant is selling well these days...

Dave

 

I think you've a good point about the potential for petroleum existing without perfectly parallel back-histories, but in point of fact, Gonzo is right; science fiction has some pretty strong rules, while fantasy does not. Sure it's fair to straddle the genres, but best selling stories generally do not.

 

Fiction/Fantasy

Good observation, Dave.

Gonz... whatcha say we go back to devising a cool boat for the initial premise?

Here's a short version of my vision.

I've been kicking around the possibility of a genetically engineered plant program that allows extremely large gourds to be grown in one's backyard that achieve lengths of 20' or so. Once mature, the gourd is hollowed and fitted out as a normal sailing craft. Gourd selection could be biased towards the desire for a monohull or even a multihull of truly organic form. Of course, color and surface texture would be selectable as well.

The mast appendage is treated bamboo held in the up position by a tensioned spring. The mast is curved to follow the contour of the deck from bow to the horizontal resting position of the tip . The mast can be cranked back to a reclining position via an internal winch in the event of bad weather or low level obstructions. The sail is Junk-like as well as Oriental fan-like in that it expands and retracts as the mast is deployed. There are tunable battens that can be spread for a flatter or baggier section independent of the other sections.

Yeah, I know, it's a crazy mixture of old and new stuff, but it could be done with what we know now and easily exported to another world, as it has been described in the original premise.

Don't swipe my idea, the vine is growing in a secret location right now. Teams of lawyers have hammered-out Trademarks, Copyrights and bio-patents. Post apocalyptic industry will be mine, I tell you.... All Mine!!!

Chris

 

You can postulate unknown physical principles and construct your story from it. However, to be science, it must follow the rules throughout the story. It also has to make sense. Science fiction doesn't allow you to use magic to solve inconsistensies. However, if you introduce paranormal powers, then the Universe you describe must follow rules that include those powers.

 

It's interesting to note that lately the oil companies have been re-opening old drilling sites because they are producing again. The implication of this is that oil is produced much deeper in the earth than previously thought. The extension of this line of thinking opens up lots of possibilities about the actual source of many oil deposits. ...I think I regurgitated that quite well....

It is a little known fact that aircraft fuel tanks in WWII were often made from .....PAPER MACHE' !!!

Early transoceanic boats had both sail and coal fired boilers becasue they weren't big enough to carry enough fuel for the crossing. Many had paddle wheels, but the ships of the Franklin expedition actually had screw propellors.

There wouldn't happen to be an evil genius locked up in this prison, would there?

Being a boat guy, and not having any aerospace experience...except for one day at a plant that makes helecopter parts..I'd like to avoid pointing out that there is a possibility of building a lighter than air baloon or airship. Hell, the power to weight ratio of an alumium block honda engine makes it pretty good for building a light aircraft.

How do they know that there's people and oil over yonder?? Long distance collect calls?

 

power scow

A "side-paddle power scow" with a transverse log and paddle wheels mounted outboard each after quarter of a barge-like hull might go. One of the intact vehicles mounted so the rear tires are ROLLING ON the log (drive shaft) would power the craft; in low gear with a large enough log. They could have a great test run where they find out (nearly tragically) that the originally designed paddles are too large and they turn too fast in low gear so they have a nice surf incident making it look like the impossible idea; until the insight comes to them ....If the tires slip too much then chain the rear axle to the frame members below the shaft and increase the torque transfer- maybe deflate the tires to get a larger area of transfer between rubber and log.

Log 'drive-shaft' can be 'turned' true by creating a lathe powered by a vehicle in low gear where the log uses the wheel's rim as a face plate and the rear end is the drive. The dead man is a pair of spare tires and a wooden frame which allow the log to turn slowly and be machined by some tooling run along a wooden "ways" mounted on the ground.

With a few vehicles (intact) inside the barge/scow shape to run the side wheel paddles they could use them once they got "there" as transport.

plank the hull athwartship with tre-nails of a local hardwood (dowels) mainly labor to get all this together- and with power they can buck the current by heading out on the flood (up fjord) and overshoot the beach they're headed toward then keep traveling and land with the ebb by making a V or U path in course made good where the V or U points up and across the bay.

worth a look right?

cheers,
kmorin

 

The oil wells were closed in expectation of prices going up. We reopened several in the late 70's and eraly 80's until the oil crunch ended in February ,83. Oil prices determine which wells are worth exploiting. Also, many wells are left capped to get cheaper leases in the area.

 

Can you remember that story about a leather boat that crossed the Atlantic ?

Can't remember the traditional name... Oil or fats on the leather makes it waterproof.

Here's all I've found on the internet:

"Built by Tim Severn and sailed from Ireland to Newfoundland via the Faroes, Iceland and Greenland to prove that Irish monks could have sailed to America almost a thousand years before Columbus.
This is the boat that made that journey and after reading the book it was amazing to see it up close.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/402_0219_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/402_0204_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/rapidboy1/402_0217_1.jpg

BTW there was a time when all sci-fi movies had actors in roman clothes.

 

I said I regurgitated it. I think it was from an article on Reuters....it probably came as a result of, as you say, re-opening old wells and finding a surprise.

Chickadee, I saw a documentary on that boat on TV several years ago. What is the book?

Oh! further to the discussion of carrying crude oil (I like coal better as a primitive fuel source, but I digress) Wooden barrels were used in days gone by to carry oil, water, wine, salmon...and the list goes on.

 

The Brendan Voyage: Across the Atlantic in a Leather Boat - Tim Severin - Book, video, CD, DVD

I don't know if other titles do exist. A big part of the book describes the research of technical solutions for a heavy leather boat, which differs from the small traditional leather skiffs from the irish coast.

 

Why are they carrying crude oil 2000 miles in a boat? If they can process it wouldn't they do so first, near the source, then transport it? That's probably a silly question, I'm sure I must have missed something.

Good luck on getting published! What's the name of the first book? I'd like to read it when they put it out.

 

long time ago i read a book about a "totalgift" ( name of the book also? ) we got from frendly alliens.
the gift was a shell that transponded everything, and a beautifull tesla like world develloped..
if it rings a bell let me know if i got the tittle right, like to read it again!