Americas Cup: whats next?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. tspeer
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    tspeer Senior Member

    Until RRS 49-54 were waived by the SNG Notice of Race, USA 17 sailed for months with manual power alone using the soft sail rig. The loads to control the soft rig were much higher than the forces required to control the wing.

    Although the wing came along after the conversion to powered hydraulics, it could have been controlled by manual power. Dave Hubbard designed the control system to be quite similar in concept to the controls on his C-class catamaran designs. So the wing would have been eminently suited to manual control.

    Also prior to conversion to engine power, manual power was used to hydraulically adjust the shroud lengths to cant the rig.

    It is true that after the boat was converted to engine power and the grinders were given their pink slips, USA 17 needed the engine to operate. But it's not true that the boat could not have been raced without engine power. And it was BMW Oracle Racing's preference that the boats use only manual power. But that wasn't the rule set that governed the regatta.
     
  2. bistros

    bistros Previous Member

    Tom:

    I certainly appreciate your answer. As I previously posted:

    I would not presume to have any right to even discuss these issues with you. It is wonderful to have someone with facts and hands-on experience present. Thanks.

    --
    Bill
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==============
    The helium was in the hulls. See: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/usa-technical-details-helium-used-32082.html#post354170 From a "whats next?" standpoint it will be interesting to see what an analysis of this system turns up. It could lead to race boats designed with more volume -for more lift. Interesting to ponder the possibilities.......
     
  4. peterraymond
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    peterraymond Junior Member

    Actually, I think we agree

    Since we are talking about "America's Cup: what's next?", does anyone hope that there are engines powering the rig next time? I didn't think so.

    I'm guessing that Alinghi made that rule in part to disrupt the BOR campaign. Or, maybe they knew that BOR would have to use a BMW engine, while Alinghi could use a lighter snowmobile engine.

    I know this is a thread about what we would like to see next in the AC, not a new ideas thread, but tilting the rig was mentioned and that reminded me of something I had been thinking about.

    If you run the two shrouds through blocks on the deck and connect them together you let one shroud out as you tighten the other. The connection on the mast follows a circular arc, while the connection between the two shrouds wants to follow an elliptical arc. The result will be that as you pull the mast to windward the leeward shroud will go slack. that's better than the other way around and might be OK on some boats. On boats where slack is not OK, you still have the option of something like a barber-haul to take that slack out.

    For tipping the mast I see two options. If you ease the mast to leeward just before a tack and cleat it there, then on the other tack it will already be in the right position. In theory this may not be a perfect idea since, from conservation of energy, the manual labor this saves is taken from the wind and is no longer available to drive the boat forward. Similar to the way roll tacking puts energy into the boat.

    Alternately, connecting the shrouds together on the boat at a windward sheeting traveler car would let you pull/winch on just one line after a tack to shift the mast. I suspect that, to save weight, you could do the whole thing with the traveler car and leave out the actual traveler.

    I'm sure someone has thought of this before, so I wonder if anyone has comments from experience?
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =================
    Actually, this is a thread about new(or old) ideas that might wind up in a future AC....
     
  6. BobBill
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    Location: Minnesotan wakes up daily, in SE MN, a good start,

    BobBill Senior Member

    What is Next?

    Chicago!

    Crash Dive racing in hard northern chop off Navy Pier. Mono's only invited. Last boat sailing wins.

    Long live pot-hole Daly.
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    yeah, thats right: helium used in every race!

    ==============
    Helium confirmed(again)! http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/mu...l-details-helium-used-32082-5.html#post357528 post 69
     
  8. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    "the sky is rising. The Sky is Rising"

    - Chicken Little
     
  9. booster
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    booster Senior Member

    Doug&Chris
    Helium seems like fun. Funny voices aboard as well. However, inhale some Argon at the start to get the right Basso profundo=The lowest male bass voice that emphasizes the low, rich tessitura.
    Regards,
    Booster
     
  10. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Boost, it sounds like you have a connected understanding of the Argon potential. Please expound on same so that we can all get in the game... ;-)
     
  11. bistros

    bistros Previous Member

    You guys are getting all "Jason and the Golden Fleece" on me. Argonauts.

    Given the apparent volume(s) of the contained areas in the hull(s), the actual lift (reducing displacement) can not be all that huge. It seems a statistically insignificant weight reduction and probably not enough to dramatically affect the steady state flying of a hull. It would be interesting to know real numbers and not hype.

    I just don't know how anyone can get hyped and claim huge benefits without knowing the data to support it. Perhaps this is like religion, where the fanatically faithful take the literal words they are told as the truth without question.

    --
    Bill
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  13. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    You have no idea what confirmed means.

     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =============
    "stingray"-as I said in the part you didn't quote- is 100% trumped by my sources whose credentials are far better than anyone he quoted.
    The boat used helium for measurement purposes-live with it.......
     

  15. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    What, exactly, has been confirmed?

    I don't think you know the answer to that one and yet, here you are, still acting as if the goofiness is the story of the new millenium when it comes to sail boats.

    So you say... one guy confirms righting moment. So you say, one guy simply confirms. So you say, another guy simply confirms. Nowhere in there is the tiniest bit of evidence that the helium was actually used for anything of merit when it comes to actually sailing the boat.

    Come on, Doug, get some real journalistic chops going here and dig out the factual story. Blabbing this crap around as if it is substantive is the hallmark of the idiots who run the pulp rag, The National Enquirer, which is chock full of innuendo and gossip.

    When you get someone to actually put their name on the precise story you have been tossing about and they have the cred to back it up with actual facts, you might have something to talk about. Until then, this nonsense is as functionally connected as the toothless, bearded wino guy in the middle of the desert who says that aliens put a probe in his fanny to see what he was eating.

    Making earth-shaking pronouncements about the significance of such a poorly supported minor incident regarding helium is pretty funny under these circumstances. I had no idea that you were a comedy writer in your "spare" time.
     
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