America's Cup Disaster

Hi!
Well, the boats designed by van Oosanen wasn't that fast. I believe Ben Lexcen adopted the best parts of the Holland findings to his own designs. In fact, this is what yacht design always has been. Lend some ideas, and but some own ideas in.
Regards,
Booster

 

nah no whining at all
I just thought it of interest given the progression of the conversation. Kinda funny actually. The Aussie boat not actually designed by the Aussies but instead the key feature in Amsterdam. Come on, that is kinda funny.

Personally I think the race is better off now than it was with the earlier rules but still the participants should be at least pretending to follow the rules

the real rub is that its a Bavarian motor works sponsored team that wins the cup back for USA
am shocked that no one mentioned that yet

oh well
congrats all the way around

cheers
B

 

That's just the name of the shop - you know, like 60 Minute Dry Cleaners doesn't mean you get your clothes back in an hour.

In Australia, people can sit in prison on remand for a few years before being found not guilty and released without any compensation.

Leo.

 

I thought that was historically back when the Poms were running the show.

 

happens the same way here with an added twist

over and over again they discover that they have incarcerated some poor innocent sot and end up releasing him after untold years

oops

is about all he/she is ever going to get

I think the estimate is that about 10% of prisoners convicted in the American system are actually innocent of the crime they have been incarcerated for. I'd have to look it up but Im pretty sure that number is in the ball park.

 

Just to point out how silly the last few pages have been.

Can anyone point to a rule that has legal standing that makes the design of AII's keel illegal?

This all so much BS, there is NO requirement for the design or the designer to be of the challenging or defending country. None.

If you can cite such a rule please do so. Remember it must be a rule that has legal standing.

Randy

 

I'm quite sure that I have read that in 1851 the America missed a mark of the course.Can we have the cup back?

 

Good try. That protest was heard at the time. Seems that there were two sets of instructions. America sailed the course they were given. The committee ruled that there was no foul and the Cup went to the USA with America.

The race should have been abandon and resailed.

R

 

Hey more often than not it works here... seen the US stats, they are scary.

 

Yes, more than half the fleet did not round Nab lightship, the others followed Volante who sailed the wrong course. Even though America lost her jibboom, the race itself does not present a good picture of English seamanship, Wyvern retired, Freak and Volante fouled, and Arrow took ground out of 14 English yachts. But they proved better than the recent swiss...Aurora was only 8 minutes behind at the finish... .

 

I thought individuals, not rules, could have legal standing?

Of course the rules of the matches have changed often over the years.

During the time in question neither PvO or Sloof were residents of Australia, as required by the rules of the match.


Although currently I reside in the USA, and have for most of my life, I was not brought up in a USA-centric household. I've followed the America's Cup since '74 and have not once been pulling for the American team. My comments are not tainted by country. I am interested in the true history.


If you think of things logically you wonder what Sloof was doing involved with Lexcen's "Team" if not design/analysis work. That was his expertise.

If the rules precluded outside assistance then the teams that went to overseas testing facilites should have simply brought their models to the facility, stood by watching the mechanical setup and runs, then accepted the printouts. There should never have been any cross pollination of ideas. All the designers (not owners or lawyers), Lexcen, PvO, and Sloof, have made statements that admit there was design work done by the Dutch. Whether it was overseen by Lexcen is not the question.

 

So a non resident citizen was illegal?

You still need to resolve the issue of how much external input or influence is allowed before the 'designer' is no longer considered the designer. It can't be 0% otherwise every subsequent wing keel would be considered unoriginal and someone else's design... for that matter most features of most boats. So how do you define the limits in this area?

 

certainly most folks would not really care about a 25 year old controversy but from an old coaches point of view its a simple mater of principal. Even in Australia ~14% of people poled agree that the Aussie 2 cheated

see

http://www.cessnockadvertiser.com.au/polls/

but still it seems that the whole thing could be cleared up by simply going into the records in Amsterdam and finding out whats what

interesting that some folks would rather just sweep it under the rug though
if it were my team I'd be dam curious

cheers
B

 

B,

I have this notion that you have now passed-thru the veil of mildly interested to the knobby village of completely obsessed

Amusing, to be sure, but where, exactly, do you think this will go besides the total antagonism of our friends from OZ?

 

This is his general goal....

Mod: Yeah go on, delete this post and ignore the obvious.