America's Cup declining?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Neverbehind, Feb 28, 2006.

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  1. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    Yes, but these changes occurred just after the start and then the race was a boring blow out.
     
  2. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    i have to disagree...
    in the late seventies wing cars (and i am not talking about the wings you see fore and aft of the car, i am referring to the wing shaped underbody) were introduced to formula 1 racing, almost at the same time turbo charged engine came, leading to very fast and powerful cars in the 80s... they peaked over 1300 hp (although already limited to 1500 ccm instead of the 3000 ccm engine without turbos) during qualifying and had so much downforce that the speeds in turns just shot through the ceiling - those were and are the fastest race cars ever build!

    they got banned - turbo charged engines and the underbody wingshapes - because they simply became to dangerous for the pilots. the g-forces in turns were just getting too high so they got undriveable although proved very effective - probably too effective? ;)

    disagreement again - i do not consider a multi as being safe, quite the opposite actually... ;)
     
  3. motorbike
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    motorbike Senior Member

    Captain youre probably wasting electrons. The multihull zealots are all in a froth because the they see the AC as a coming out party with all the world seeing at last how worthy multis are, how hard done by, misunderstood and maltreated they have been by those mean monohull owners.

    I cant recall how many times I've read comments on these mono/multi threads in which the majority of mono sailors acknowledge the merits of multis and multi owners deride monohulls with a spluttering religious fervour.
     
  4. HarryN
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    HarryN Junior Member

    Speaking as an entirely casual observer, who lives just east of SF:
    - The whole thing seems like little more than an adv. for Oracle
    - There is very little local or national identity to bring in anyone's interest, frankly, I have yet to meet anyone "on the street" who cares who wins, even among real sport fans.
    - I like to watch an occassional car race, but this is not on my list.
    - A number of more long term business tenants lost their place of business to accomodate (eminant domain).
    - Tax payer money went to subsidize the whole setup and event, but after the race, nothing useful will have been gained locally.

    I don't mean to sound negative, but I am having trouble warming up to the whole thing. I suppose it is no worse in these regards than any other pro sport, it is just a little tiring to constantly be subsidizing billionaire hobbies.
     
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  5. Munter
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    Munter Amateur

    Harry, you must stop this multihull bashing immediately!
     
  6. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    My point was that the drag penalty for a draggier monohull could be negated for example with a slightly better cut spinnaker on each downwind run. While a relatively small drag difference in a AC72's foils adds up to a win or a loss.

    The winners will be the ones who were either lucky with their foil implementations or who had the most time/resources/skilled people to refine.
     
  7. HarryN
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    HarryN Junior Member

    Fortunately, I am not qualified to discuss the technical aspects of the race, or perhaps that is the reason I am not sufficiently interested.

    I am sure you are joking around, but I actually do think multi hulls are cool looking, I don't have much experience in them though.
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===============
    Harry, welcome to the forum! I'm curious what you think about the fact that these boats are foiling about half the time?
    Have you paid any attention to the America's Cup in the past?
     
  9. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I often wonder what people who enjoy the sport and excitement of drag racing feel about their sport being constantly derided. Having known a few guys who have been mad keen about tweaking up their cars and lining them up on the strip I don't think they deserve the hate that is put upon them. Maybe in the end they reach a point where they just ignore it or treat it with the contempt the endless criticism deserves.

    Likewise I also don't think that multihull enthusiasts deserve the hate either if we dare to say we enjoyed watching a race or felt that a crew made a good tactical decision we are mocked in a manner that is disproportionate to our crime which seems to be enjoying watching the craft we are interested in raced. Somehow enjoying the aspect of the sport of sailing that we like is tantamount to an insult to monohull sailors. I also call BS on the perspective that Multihull racing cant be closely fought particularly when it's one design in the MOD70 events we are often seeing the craft cross tacks at the end of an ocean race and finishing within seconds of each other.

    More to the point the decision to take the America's Cup to multihulls was not taken by rank and file multihull enthusiasts anymore than the choice of IACC monohulls or J boats were made by club level monohull sailors it's the choice of the defender and it's up to the challengers to decide whether they will race or launch a DoG challenge. The AC is an elitist game from the beginning for gross egos with pockets stuffed full of cash.
     
  10. HarryN
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    HarryN Junior Member

    Thank you for the welcome. Honestly, in the past, I mostly paid attention to the end result rather than the individual races, but a few years ago I did watch a few sailing races on TV.

    Given that the races are local, I had thought about going to some, but the more it was promoted, the less interesting it became. I am trying to figure out if this is because I have become more interested in watching youth level sports than pro-sports in general, or if it is related to the personalities involved in pro-level sail racing.

    I kind of like the errors and interesting random events that happen in youth sports, and frankly the occassional auto race spin out, and fights during hockey. This type of fan excitement response is difficult to duplicate when people die from such events in sailing.

    I am perfectly happy with applying technology to common items, the competitive edge, needed or not, and have spent plenty of money and time on "hobbies", so the fact that the boats are highly engineered for the race is not a surprise.

    The application of foils to a sale race in 2013 seems - sort of "so-what", even though it isn't. Foil boats have been around a long time, and I remember reading about them (at least conceptually) on boats when I was a teen back in the 70s. I am sure that riding on one would open my eyes to the fact that it is pretty exciting, even today. Maybe that is what I need to do first, spend some more time on boats again.
     
  11. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    HarryN said :- " I am sure that riding on one would open my eyes to the fact that it is pretty exciting, even today. Maybe that is what I need to do first, spend some more time on boats again."

    I'm glad you said that.
    I have been sailing for 55 years and now, every time I set foot on a sail boat
    I still get the same thrill. It never fails, that great feeling as you sheet in , pull on the helm and move away. I spent a year sailing large motorboats but they never gave me that pure feeling of moving away under the natural power of the wind. It's solar power at it's very best. :cool:
    Don't forget. A sailboat circumnavigated the world fifteen days faster than a nuclear submarine did. :eek:
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    With respect, from some perspectives it's the other way around. Mono sailors are behaving just like cat sailors, who got really narked when the Tornado was dropped from the Games and the C Class was dropped from the LAC, so it's obviously pretty normal and understandable to object when your preferred type is chucked from its major event.

    Some people are discussing the racing in negative terms, but others are responding with insults and abuse of anyone who does not like the cats. It's the difference between saying "Personally, I don't like the taste of this beer" and someone replying "that beer is the best ever, soon everyone will drink it, if you don't like that beer you are shortsighted biased dill".

    I don't think that anyone on the "mono side" has used terms like "pathetic", "deluded egoists", "luddites" like some on the "multi" side have. No mono supporter has said that people should not be negative while at the same time calling people like Ian Farrier hypocrites and telling people "you turkeys can go and consume your own defecation". And if being negative about the AC72 accidents is bad, then so is being negative about some of the world's best sailors by blaming the accidents on them.

    You are, of course, dead right when you point out that it wasn't the normal multi sailor who made the decision. It's a pity that the taking over of an event - something that cat sailors themselves have rightly objected to when it happened to them - could have driven a wedge between us when surely as sailors it would be better if we could just enjoy what we like, and let the other guys enjoy what they like.
     
  13. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Err, in your fantastic utopian world, CT, where have I attacked Farrier?
    For someone who loves to righteously preach, you take many comments out of context ... to fit your own "taste in beer."
     
  14. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I guess your are right CT just human nature at work but a bit disappointing none the less. What engendered this mono/multi hatred? It seems to be perpetuated by a relatively small group of people and It's never been obvious when I've attended yacht clubs and chatted with members. If anything most sailors (regardless of chosen hull configuration) are welcoming and intrigued by multi sailing and keen to know more. It's not uncommon for them to have sailed charter multis and be able to talk knowledgeably about the experience and their observations. I only really hear these mono/multi tiffs on the internet and I'm dubious that they have any substance.
     

  15. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    "Farrier nevertheless hypocritically denounced Cheekee Monkee and others like it..."

    Find it at http://outrig.org/multihull-stories/light-brigade.html

    A world in which people don't tell others to each ****, as you did in this thread, is not a utopia. It's just about anywhere apart from the web where people can throw around insults because they are insulated by distance.

    It's not preaching to ask people not to abuse or denigrate the tastes of one's own friends, family and acquaintances. I would have thought that anyone would think that was reasonable.

    If you want to talk about negativity and preaching, you could read your other pieces in the same excerpt, like "It is only in blatant suppression of movements that the situation
    loses control. The more unfair the umpire, the more determined the iconoclast becomes –
    so in the long run that is healthy too" and "Although they would like to think differently most yachting people are not experimentalists and when confronted with inventive types become frightened and confused – and can only handle them by making criticism" and the criticism of heavy monos and northern hemisphere owners.
     
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