Amateur design insulting to pros?

[Sobell]

Butler was anything but an amiture designer. He drew some of the sweetest WL's I've ever seen and well understood the principles and mathematics involved. Given his education, he knew the value of understanding, what was involved and performed the research in a day, where no computer help was available.

There are lots of designs (again) available, you've just not looked very hard. Hell, look at my gallery and you'll see designs, much like what you want. You can have both modern build methods and performance, with the look of whatever (or nearly so) you'd like.

Do you have anything that looks like Blue Moon? Or know of anyone who does?

 

[hoytedow]

I like the Terra Cruiser but opted for the teardrop for reduced drag when towing. It is tight inside but comfortable with a queen size mattress. I am about to partially rebuild it with some minor improvements.

 

[Sobell]

That's a neat teardrop. I've seen lots of cool teardrop designs at the Teardrops and Tiny Trailers forum. I've got to have a "standy" though. (And now I'm crazy about a sailboat plan with 4 feet of headroom... go figure.)

 

[Rurudyne]

How do you make joints too strong?

Use TWO layers of duct tape.

 

[upchurchmr]

Really now, go hi tech.

Strapping tape.

 

[Rurudyne]

Do you have anything that looks like Blue Moon? Or know of anyone who does?

Is this the right Blue Moon?

http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=SailBoats/BlueMoon

EDIT: sorry, I missed those posts.

 

[Sobell]

Is this the right Blue Moon?

http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=SailBoats/BlueMoon

EDIT: sorry, I missed those posts.

Yes, that's the right one. There appears to be almost no info about it on the web, beyond the plans that appeared in Boat Builder in the early 1970s.

 

[hoytedow]

That's a neat teardrop. I've seen lots of cool teardrop designs at the Teardrops and Tiny Trailers forum. I've got to have a "standy" though. (And now I'm crazy about a sailboat plan with 4 feet of headroom... go figure.)

Thanks. If you look closely, you will see it is built on my old 14' boat trailer which I bought used for 200 bucks. The superstructure resting on the trailer cost about a thousand bucks counting the a/c and microwave oven.

Unfortunately, I built it before I discovered T&TTT forum.

 

[BertKu]

There are plenty of well founded designs that are likely to provide exactly what you're looking for, just needing some aesthetic upgrades to suit your whims. Designing a 20' sailboat isn't a great feat, though you sure can build an ill handling beast if you don't know what you're doing. Most of these older designs can be converted to taped seam or other build type, with some education or help. Pick up the book "Elements of Boat Strength" to get a handle on some of these conversion processes and a general idea of what might be involved with your self designing a fresh new boat.

Hi PAR, I agree with you, but you must see it my way. When I was playing golf, quite a lot of the times, I lost and that costed plenty of money. Playing golf is not cheap. Caddy fee's, membership fee, etc. Now I thoroughly enjoying making a conversion to a half baked sailing boat, just in case my electrics is letting me down. That also cost plenty of money, extra tools, like a small lathe, drill bits, books and whatever extra tools needed, material wasted etc. If the end product is a failure, I still had lots of fun in making this failure. While loosing in a golf game, is sour grape. Plotting how to do this and how to do that, is fun. Making mistakes and having to redo it again in a different way, is also fun. But I fully agree, as long the safety issue is not overlooked, a well prepared plan from a NA or boat builder is a good way to go. Will I ever do it again? NO. Would I have like it missed. ALSO NO, I had fun. I could have bought a faster, bigger, better boat.

PAR, I am nearly there, just one more safety issue in the form of a folding up keel to lower my center point of gravity. I have added 23 kg above the waterline and I have to compensate for that. Special if a sudden gust blows in my sail. Bert

 

[Sobell]

Any reason you couldn't go back to your earlier plan of building the picaroon?
You could always make cosmetic changes to get closer to your sketch, and still have a well known, structurally sound boat with known sailing qualities.

Picaroon is way beyond my abilities, I think.

 

[tane]

"reinventing the wheel" we call it around here...

 

[Angélique]

Do you have anything that looks like Blue Moon? Or know of anyone who does?

Hi Sobell,

In post #31, where the above quote is from, you have quoted the answer to your above question.

Simply put, the answer is already given, but not specific, you have to look for yourself.

I'm not so sure further spoon feeding of this answer is in your interest, and/or in the spirit of learning of someone who wants to build a boat, personal initiative is certainly necessity for this task, or your not gonna make it.

So if you want to know, check that post again and go to the original post you quoted there for the links in the signature.

Check the full navigation bar on that website, so much to learn there . . . :idea:

And 'gallery' is what you find when you click on someones name or avatar here.

Good Luck -

 

[PAR]

I don't think much of Blue Moon. To me it's trying to be more than it is (5 pounds of boob in a 2 pound bra). In a nutshell, it's 14' LWL boat, trying it's best to be an 18' LWL boat. It looks odd to say the least, massive cabin structure, less than desireable sail plan proportions, antiquated building plan, etc.

If you must have a 14' LWL boat, accept the limitations of one. Pocket cruisers are some of the hardest to design (well) sailboats going. I don't see anything easy or fast about a Blue Moon build, which might explain why so little is available, about this over half a century old design.

As previously mentioned, there are literally hundreds of these little cruisers, so old, some not so much. Pick a building method you'd prefer, which narrows down the search and focus on the ones in your desired build method. Conversely, if you've found one close to what you want, but it's in the wrong build method, you can change this (most of the time). Gerr's book can help, but really it's all about just digging, until you find something that rings the most bells and making adjustments to its aesthetic considerations.

For example, I could live with Blue Moon, if it was converted to a true taped seam build, a lot more cabin roof crown was used to help lower the visual impact, possibly some beefy hand rails to hide the cabin side height, maybe even raising the sheer a bit to help as well. I'd also do something about that hideous rudder planform as well.

 

[Sobell]

Hi Sobell,

In post #31, where the above quote is from, you have quoted the answer to your above question. <snip>

Angelique, I apologize for being unclear. The question to PAR in comment 31 was about Blue Moon.... I think his post above it referred to the picture I drew and posted in comment 12 (he can correct me if I'm wrong about that), which, to me, doesn't look like Blue Moon at all.

These are two quite different designs I've referenced in this thread. The main practical difference is that Blue Moon has plans and, in the vintage Boat Builder magazine where the plans appeared in the early 1970s, there are photographs of the vessel under way and at a dock, which is evidence that it has actually been built, at least once. My drawing is just a picture of a sailboat.

I like both boats, but since one is an actual design and the other is just a picture, I'm more interested in Blue Moon. I have combed the web looking for more information about it, without success. I asked about the design here because it seems likelier that people on a boat design forum would have encountered it somewhere than people in, say, my book marketing or landscaping groups.

In any case, I wanted to change Blue Moon to have a shallow draft keel rather than a centerboard, and to change the building method to stitch and glue or another modern method, and I realized it was basically a redesign of the boat. There was also the thought that if a redesign was an affront to naval architects, would my little green boat be an worse insult? So I decided to ask about that here, (along with some other questions).

If these are not appropriate questions/subjects for this forum, perhaps there is somewhere else to take my questions ... Maybe I am mistaken about what discussion of "boat design" encompasses?

 

[Sobell]

I don't think much of Blue Moon....<snip>

The look you don't like is what I do like -- the big cabin and smallish sails and the sort of rakish backslant to the whole profile.

There are indeed lots of little cruisers, dozens, maybe hundreds, that look almost exactly alike (and there are others that are awful). But Blue Moon is apparently unique as I haven't seen anything like it. And while I'm not at all crazy about the outmoded building method, I love the vintage look.

I guess I'll keep looking, and/or learn how to redesign this boat for modern construction methods.