Amateur design insulting to pros?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Sobell, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. Sobell
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 2, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Florida

    Sobell Junior Member

    Do you have anything that looks like Blue Moon? Or know of anyone who does?
     
  2. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,626
    Likes: 256, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    I like the Terra Cruiser but opted for the teardrop for reduced drag when towing. It is tight inside but comfortable with a queen size mattress. I am about to partially rebuild it with some minor improvements.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Sobell
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 2, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Florida

    Sobell Junior Member

    That's a neat teardrop. I've seen lots of cool teardrop designs at the Teardrops and Tiny Trailers forum. I've got to have a "standy" though. (And now I'm crazy about a sailboat plan with 4 feet of headroom... go figure.)
     
  4. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,163
    Likes: 36, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 155
    Location: North Texas

    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Use TWO layers of duct tape. ;)
     
  5. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 3,048
    Likes: 149, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 579
    Location: Ft. Worth, Tx, USA

    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Really now, go hi tech.

    Strapping tape.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Rurudyne
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,163
    Likes: 36, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 155
    Location: North Texas

    Rurudyne Senior Member

  7. Sobell
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 2, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Florida

    Sobell Junior Member

    Yes, that's the right one. There appears to be almost no info about it on the web, beyond the plans that appeared in Boat Builder in the early 1970s.
     
  8. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,626
    Likes: 256, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    Thanks. If you look closely, you will see it is built on my old 14' boat trailer which I bought used for 200 bucks. The superstructure resting on the trailer cost about a thousand bucks counting the a/c and microwave oven.

    Unfortunately, I built it before I discovered T&TTT forum.
     
  9. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 2,480
    Likes: 43, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 223
    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi PAR, I agree with you, but you must see it my way. When I was playing golf, quite a lot of the times, I lost and that costed plenty of money. Playing golf is not cheap. Caddy fee's, membership fee, etc. Now I thoroughly enjoying making a conversion to a half baked sailing boat, just in case my electrics is letting me down. That also cost plenty of money, extra tools, like a small lathe, drill bits, books and whatever extra tools needed, material wasted etc. If the end product is a failure, I still had lots of fun in making this failure. While loosing in a golf game, is sour grape. Plotting how to do this and how to do that, is fun. Making mistakes and having to redo it again in a different way, is also fun. But I fully agree, as long the safety issue is not overlooked, a well prepared plan from a NA or boat builder is a good way to go. Will I ever do it again? NO. Would I have like it missed. ALSO NO, I had fun. I could have bought a faster, bigger, better boat.

    PAR, I am nearly there, just one more safety issue in the form of a folding up keel to lower my center point of gravity. I have added 23 kg above the waterline and I have to compensate for that. Special if a sudden gust blows in my sail. Bert
     
  10. Sobell
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 2, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Florida

    Sobell Junior Member

    Picaroon is way beyond my abilities, I think.
     
  11. tane
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 85
    Likes: 1, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: austria

    tane Junior Member

    "reinventing the wheel" we call it around here...
     
  12. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,005
    Likes: 327, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Sobell,

    In post #31, where the above quote is from, you have quoted the answer to your above question.

    Simply put, the answer is already given, but not specific, you have to look for yourself.

    I'm not so sure further spoon feeding of this answer is in your interest, and/or in the spirit of learning of someone who wants to build a boat, personal initiative is certainly necessity for this task, or your not gonna make it.

    So if you want to know, check that post again and go to the original post you quoted there for the links in the signature.

    Check the full navigation bar on that website, so much to learn there . . . :idea:

    And 'gallery' is what you find when you click on someones name or avatar here.

    Good Luck - :)
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 474, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I don't think much of Blue Moon. To me it's trying to be more than it is (5 pounds of boob in a 2 pound bra). In a nutshell, it's 14' LWL boat, trying it's best to be an 18' LWL boat. It looks odd to say the least, massive cabin structure, less than desireable sail plan proportions, antiquated building plan, etc.

    If you must have a 14' LWL boat, accept the limitations of one. Pocket cruisers are some of the hardest to design (well) sailboats going. I don't see anything easy or fast about a Blue Moon build, which might explain why so little is available, about this over half a century old design.

    As previously mentioned, there are literally hundreds of these little cruisers, so old, some not so much. Pick a building method you'd prefer, which narrows down the search and focus on the ones in your desired build method. Conversely, if you've found one close to what you want, but it's in the wrong build method, you can change this (most of the time). Gerr's book can help, but really it's all about just digging, until you find something that rings the most bells and making adjustments to its aesthetic considerations.

    For example, I could live with Blue Moon, if it was converted to a true taped seam build, a lot more cabin roof crown was used to help lower the visual impact, possibly some beefy hand rails to hide the cabin side height, maybe even raising the sheer a bit to help as well. I'd also do something about that hideous rudder planform as well.
     
  14. Sobell
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 2, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Florida

    Sobell Junior Member

    Angelique, I apologize for being unclear. The question to PAR in comment 31 was about Blue Moon.... I think his post above it referred to the picture I drew and posted in comment 12 (he can correct me if I'm wrong about that), which, to me, doesn't look like Blue Moon at all.

    These are two quite different designs I've referenced in this thread. The main practical difference is that Blue Moon has plans and, in the vintage Boat Builder magazine where the plans appeared in the early 1970s, there are photographs of the vessel under way and at a dock, which is evidence that it has actually been built, at least once. My drawing is just a picture of a sailboat.

    I like both boats, but since one is an actual design and the other is just a picture, I'm more interested in Blue Moon. I have combed the web looking for more information about it, without success. I asked about the design here because it seems likelier that people on a boat design forum would have encountered it somewhere than people in, say, my book marketing or landscaping groups.

    In any case, I wanted to change Blue Moon to have a shallow draft keel rather than a centerboard, and to change the building method to stitch and glue or another modern method, and I realized it was basically a redesign of the boat. There was also the thought that if a redesign was an affront to naval architects, would my little green boat be an worse insult? So I decided to ask about that here, (along with some other questions).

    If these are not appropriate questions/subjects for this forum, perhaps there is somewhere else to take my questions ... Maybe I am mistaken about what discussion of "boat design" encompasses?
     

  15. Sobell
    Joined: Jan 2017
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 2, Points: 6, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Florida

    Sobell Junior Member

    The look you don't like is what I do like -- the big cabin and smallish sails and the sort of rakish backslant to the whole profile.

    There are indeed lots of little cruisers, dozens, maybe hundreds, that look almost exactly alike (and there are others that are awful). But Blue Moon is apparently unique as I haven't seen anything like it. And while I'm not at all crazy about the outmoded building method, I love the vintage look.

    I guess I'll keep looking, and/or learn how to redesign this boat for modern construction methods.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.