Amaryllis

About Amaryllis' successors. The legend says that Mark Foy's catamaran Flying Fish, built in Sydney a few years later to a different design, was the fastest thing afloat but was rejected by the (insert your favourite cliche about a backward-looking establishment here).

I've actually been seeing some of the Fish's results when looking for other information. She was not banned from normal racing, it turns out. She was normally refused the chance to race IN CHAMPIONSHIPS with the 22s and 24s that had dimensional limits - fair enough, they were racing as a class in those events, and putting Flying Fish in with them would be as fair and logical as putting a foiling Moth into an A Class title - but she was welcomed to race in normal mixed-fleet events that included 22s, 24s, 18s, etc.

She was also certainly NOT the fastest thing around. She was outstanding downwind in a big breeze, but the best 22s and 24s, with their vast rigs, were faster most of the time and normally gave her a head start in pursuit racing. When the One Raters arrived they were as fast as the best 22s so would also have been slightly quicker than the Fish. Flying Fish was 60' from bowsprit tip to boom end so would have had a much bigger rig than the Raters.

Interestingly, some people simply said "hell yes, race your cat - but race it with other cats" and other people pointed out that the "establishment" 22 and 24 footers were slower than the proas of the Pacific. So no one was denying the potential speed of multis, or saying they couldn't race.

So it seems that once again, the myth was wrong. The cat was not banned by a blind regressive establishment, it was not owned by a renegade, it wasn't really attacked. The Luddites turn out, once again, to be those who fail to use modern technology to research what really happened in those days.

 

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Dominion was some 20 years after Amaryllis and was squashed after one regatta, yet her descendants were(are) some of the fastest monohulls around.
And she inspired "new" tunnel hulled scows a bit over 60 years after her first sail....
http://m20-scow.com/history.html

"In 1898 the Canadian boat, Dominion, carried the scow design to its logical end. She was essentially two semi-circular section hulls with a joining elevated floor above the waterline. When heeled, her waterline increased from 17'6" to 27 feet. She won the 1898 Seawanhaka Cup with ease, unbeatable in any condition. Her superior design was subsequently ruled illegal for the Seawanhaka Cup competition. Dominion would later be part of the inspiration for the M-20 design."

"The M-20[1962 dl] must be considered an advanced scow design and will remain so for years to come. .......... The tunneled hull of the M-20 is her most unique feature and provides increased stability and structural stiffness."

 

Amongst " advanced" sailers it is well known that heeled scows and skimming dishes have a LWL/BWL ratio that comes close to that of a multihull,
thus running faster than hullspeed.
With canting keel and max. canting rigg-----monohulled catamaran.
One could name it Sailboat with articulating hull and adaptive rigg/ ballast


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3JGAjnk7_...0-no/1901382_10151872187271504_21609522_n.png

Note, no wake , better no wave valley at WL . Ratio of 10 ?
http://www.sommerwerck.de/uploads/pics/Audi_TP52_05.jpg
( Bei sse weh, no rocker please !)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6229/6298918075_3565ab3afe.jpg

http://hallman.org/boats/30deg.jpg

http://archive.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/12/0926/1.jpg


pogo







Gimmick , dazzle camouflage :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage#/media/File:EB1922_Camouflage_Periscope_View.jpg

 

Schöne Bilder

 

BTW, I did not make this posting on this subject thread to try and link it to the aftmast discussions on the other thread, and bring up such discussions here.

I only brought it up to demonstrate how rating rules can influence boat design,...even within class racing

In other words, be-damn the ratings, give me the fastest boat.

 

The irony is, Comanche was not and is not the worst rated boat in history. She's also not the fastest boat - that would be a multi.

Yes, rating rules can influence boat design, but many of the claims that particular design features are created by rating rules are incorrect, or arguably misleading.

The other thing is that many people blame rating rules and then fail to explain exactly what they want to replace them. Any look at sailing history shows that classes that classify boats in very simple ways are even more typeforming than most rating rules - why is that a good thing?

 

I was simply making the observation that often it is the rating rules that can be significantly influencing the design of our boats,....not necessarily mother ocean

 

Okay, I get that, but what is the alternative? What is "the rule of mother ocean" and how do you run a race under it?

We know that classes that just limit overall or waterline length end up as very distorted boats, not fast for their cost or sail area. We know that classes that just limit sail area end up distorted in other ways and are also not fast for their cost or their size and complexity.

We know that just saying "no rules, the start is at 1 o'clock" ends up with the richest person (or the one prepared to have the most specialised craft) winning most of the time, and that no such class has ever survived for very long because to most people there is no fun, no challenge, and lots of frustration.

So what is the alternative? If there is no real alternative in general to rating rules, then it's a slightly different discussion, isn't it? Furthermore, it's not hard to dig into many or most of the specific claims that rating rules influenced the design of our boats and to see that they are just wrong, or at least misleading.

 

I don't know that there are alternatives for the racing crowds, in fact I rather doubt it. Just let that be as it is evolving.

I was just making the observation that those racing boat designs can become a 'bit distorted' from reality, and thus not all of the sailing public should be accepting them as the 'gospel'.

 

Ah, okay. Thanks

 

Amaryillis

Is this Amaryllis with a forerunner of a spinnaker?