aluminum welding issue

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by Brian.Lin, Jul 24, 2016.

  1. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Apologies to all for getting all snippity and crustacious.

    It just seems telling someone to take some classes doesn't really help at all. He maybe knows welding but can't quite understand the fine points of what the fairly vague author of '13.0 WELD RUNS' was trying to say.

    A 'a maker's welding guideline' sounds to me like instructions that come along with a plan. Lot's of people come here looking for clarification on vague instructions in plans, and to interrupt a build by enrolling in school isn't going to happen.

    It's absolutely nothing compared to someone like 'catbuilder' who comes here without a clue, none whatsoever, gets tutored for a year or two receiving hundreds of hours worth of advice and education and then leaves as a total dick.

    The heading says "aluminum welding issue".

    There is the language barrier and all, and a lack of information about exactly what is being welded, such as butt/lap welding plate to plate, stringers to plate etc.

    This sounds to me like he has some idea of what he's doing but the language barrier makes it unclear what he's talking about. I assumed he was referring to these two types of intermittent welds...

    [​IMG]

    The
    I take to mean the pattern used to evenly tighten bolts on flanges or wheels on a car, etc. which would be the 'staggered intermittent' weld.

    [​IMG]

    It's not that I am an authority on welding or that there is enough info presented, but the weld 'instructions' seem to imply multiple pass welds such as these...

    [​IMG]

    and it also sounds like castings (cleats, flanges, porthole frames, etc) are being welded to the face of plates.

    .
     
  2. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    At first I thought that was advertising for a pay for online training, but maybe not. They do say this though, so I guess that would eliminate the OPs ability to learn from it.

     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Oh well, that's a bummer. Lincoln Electric has really good tutorials without a lot of theory. They focus on hands-on welders. There are books/DVD courses for sale too. I am not advertising or have any connection to them.
     
  4. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Matters not if time consuming or not. It is essential. Otherwise leads to fatigue cracking. It is poor welding if the welder does not pay attention to stops and starts...usually in evidence by endless crater cracks and 'suck-back' at these stops/starts.

    Indeed.
    But, as I always put on my drawings - if in doubt ask !

    And that means asking the designer/draughtsman who drew and placed the note on the drawing. Why ask a 3rd party (website) if there is an owner of the drawing/design - one assumes that there is communication with the designer of the vessel they are building by evidence of the drawing!?
     
  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    There could be a number of reasons why a designer is unavailable for questioning. Maybe the the plans are public domain (FAO), maybe the designer is cruising, retired, dead, can't be bothered etc.
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I don't think this is a matter of a designer clarifying a set of plans or specifics within them, but a fundamental welding skill issue, that you'd learn the first day someone showed started to teach you how to weld.
     
  7. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I think the amount of solder to provide in each case, and the application sequence, require certain studies and calculations that the welder, by being a welder, can not do.
    It is true that all this is very standardized but is a matter of engineering the welder, as such, is not prepared to address.
    All constructive drawing, of a metalic structure, must include welding to be applied in each case as defined by the designer.
     
  8. JSL
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    JSL Senior Member

    There is something called a 'welding schedule' but competent builders doing my boats (up to 85') it is almost superfluous as they know what is needed anyway.
     
  9. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Welding is standardized. There are engineering formulas that are commonly used, so there is no need to re-engineer what are standard practices. Alternately, Class societies have standards, which leaves little room for re-inventing welding too.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Agreed, anyone that's pulled a few dozen yards of bead, pretty much knows how much material they'll need. Only novices can't make these simple mental calculations.
     
  11. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    What a narrow window to look at the world of welding!
    Even a small metal boat, say 30 m in length, have such complex elements in its structure and its equipment, that talking about standards in welding means absolutely ignore the problems that arise in this type of construction. I mean the type of welding, the amount of material to be provided, the process and the machine used to apply it. There are standard solutions, of course, but these did not worry anyone.
     
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm not sure what you're having issue with, but how many meters of bead have you personally pushed TANSL? Weld diagrams are pretty easy to read and well standardized. Even if they aren't, understanding the OP's posted instruction aren't especially difficult. In a nutshell the instructions recommended the first passes (if required) be stitched with a 3" bead and 6" pitch. No welder worth their gloves would mis-understand this simple instruction. If he was confused, a quick Google search should have cleared it up pretty quickly, but no, he came to a boatbuilding discussion forum and displayed his very novice welding skills, to which a resounding "get some training" retort was offered and (again) understandably so.
     
  13. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    None, but I personally have drawn many (over a hundred) construction drawings of steel assemblies, and I had to estimate the welding in each "non standard" case, which are most cases in metalic boats. With my drawings, made by me personally, they have been built hundreds of tons of steel assemblies for boats. I assure you, believe it or not, I know the topic of the weld metal boats.
    This is not what the OP asked, so I'll stop talking about this. In return, I would like people who do not know or know little about welding, stop talking on welding, or at least stop saying generalities that are not true, in general.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Are you saying you are a engineer and have the facilities to certify the tests for the welds you design? Any welding specification or technique that is not as described by code needs to be engineered, tested, certified and submitted for approval. It is a slow and expensive process that is only used as a last resort. Can you explain what you call "steel blocks"?
     

  15. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Sorry, I mean steel big assemblies forming a hull. Thanks for your warning.
    And I say what I say, nothing else. And, as a friend of mine says, "if you're not able to understand it, better do not comment anything".
     
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