Aluminum Kayaks

I get this web from the net if anybody is interested
WWW.MYALUMINUMKAYAK.COM ,I will like to have some coments from any body.
thanks.
G.

 

Neither Erik Lucendo nor Gaviota Welding are registered with the USCG as a Recreational Boat Manufacturer, which probably means he is manufacturing and marketing these boats illegally in the USA.

I have no doubt in my mind that he is lying on his website, too. After all, have you or anyone you know ever bought or owned -- or even seen -- an aluminum kayak? Where is the 'massive demand' this guy boasts about when he says "Due to massive demands please allow 25 to 35 business days for delivery."

My guess is that he built one for himself because he happens to know how to weld aluminum, so now he wants to capitalize on that experience by trying to sell them to other people. Nothing wrong with that if it is done legally and ethically, but why not register the business with the USCG as is required? And why lie about the massive demand? He could just as easily have said "I build to order so you'll have to wait a month for delivery" ... but he chose to to take a different approach ...

Google returns zero hits in a search for "Gaviota Welding", yet he claims this company is a spin-off of the mother company with a similar name. I can find no evidence that any company actually exists, especially a Limited Liability Corporation as he claims it is.

 

Aliminim Kayaks? Sounds like an oxymoron.

 

Aluminum Canoes.... sounds like a successful product for many years.

Doesn't it really depend on the design mission, the shape, the final weight and the material used, before one makes a judgement?

Right now, there's a dearth of info on the whole enterprise, so perhaps the folks involved could express themselves a bit more?

How about it Sea Gull? What was the real purpose of your post?

 

Massive demand indeed! An aluminum kayak will almost surely violate the premise that kayaks should be light in weight. No way aluminum could compete with Kevlar and probably not even with the rotomolded Tupperware type. Ken is probably right in that this cornpone merely wants to exploit his welding ability. Crackpots are everywhere.

 

I can't see why it wouldn't work. Some disadvantages of aluminum canoes are, not the lightest, noisy with contact of paddles etc and waves, they permanently streak rocks with stripes of aluminum, they tend to be "sticky" when going over rocks, etc.

You also can't get the refined shapes you can with molded fiberglass, ie sharp entry and exit and normally you don't get compound curves in aluminum.

In some kayaks that doesn't matter much, roto molded whitewater kayaks sometimes come close to being a blob that floats, but being able to pop back to shape after being bent or mashed is a big plus. Aluminum deforms easily and won't spring back to shape.

 

Tough crowd.

 

Now it looks even worse than I suggested earlier ...

What I did not realize when I made my previous post is that our thread starter calls himself "GAVIOTA" -- and this is the same name as the business names he uses on his website. Therefore, I now believe he is the same person who designed and built this aluminum kayak and created the website to sell them illegally.



His first post in this thread -- and coincidentally his very first post since he registered at boatdesign.net -- appears to be a blatant attempt at deceptive advertising now that I see the situation more clearly. Instead of saying plainly and honestly "Here's a website I created for my new aluminum kayak product" his first post seems to suggest that he somehow 'found' the linked website instead of creating it himself:

I get so sick of people hiding the facts and trying to show off and act like big shots online when they are nothing more than 'one man shows' that I want nothing to do with people like this any more -- especially when their products are poorly conceived from the beginning and ridiculously overpriced to top it off.

In my opinion this guy is just another unethical person trying to deceive others for his own personal financial gain, while using this forum as his free advertising service ...

 

He may just be a newbie looking for some feed back, there does not appear to be any attempt to hide his identity. Also, t is not unusual for small custom builders of kayaks and canoes not to be USCG registered. I have built 8 kayaks for myself over 30 years, and I have sold off most of them, does that mean I need to be registered?

But the design of this one leaves something to be desired. It is less than 10 ft long with a 30 inch beam. It will feel like pushing a shoe box through the water, esp. since it appears to have hard breaks in the lines. It will not want to track well and will need constant steering input without a large skag. It does not appear to very light, and would be susceptible to dents, and it is pretty pricey too. It would be heavy, hard to control, slow and squirly.

I see no advantage to this over inexpensive roto-molded kayaks. What advantage would aluminum have over plastic or fiberglass? Or even wood for that matter.

I suggest he go rent or borrow a lot of other factory kayaks and try them out. Also go read up on hull design from the many DIY kayak building books and hobby website to learn something about kayak design before he attempts to collect $2000 for a rather frumpy aluminum kayak. There is a reason no one makes aluminum kayaks. Grumman started making canoes after WW2 to get rid of all the left over sheet aluminum they had laying around, and to keep at least a few people employed. Then they had piles of canoes to get rid of after only a few years!

 

What makes selling his kayaks illegal?...you dont have to register with the coast guard to sell kayaks!...The guy just posted a website about his aluminum kayaks...some here make it seem as though he is selling kiddy ****!...If his product is not good , he wont be succesful. I think some of you need to lighten up a bit!

 

My original mesage was "I get this web on the net if anybody is interested
WWW.MYALUMINUMKAYAK.COM ,I will like to have some coments from any body.
thanks.
G."
and the real purpose was a humble and cheap test of the market, not having idea of the big interest on this matter,thanks for the Q Chris, (I am working on get compound curves in aluminum almost there.)

 

Without minding your business on all this... perhaps you could focus on creating a design that does not rely on compound curvature of the panels? I know it is achievable in the materials you have suggested, but the issue will be how repeatable the curvature process will be for low production numbers.

Perhaps it would be better to come up with a design that has but one developable curve in each panel and keep things nice and simple? With that type of design, you can quickly test several different forms to see which ones will make the best boat for your overall needs.

They could even be done in a lesser grade of metal until you finalize everything and then knock one out in something really good with precise welds that look truly nice.

Chris

 

I never said he was trying to hide his identity, but if all he wants is some feedback why is he:

1- BS'ing on his website when he says the reason you have to wait a month for delivery is because of the huge demand?

2- Actively trying to sell the boat by posting a purchase price and a PayPal link, which makes his activities illegal in the absence of USCG registration?

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As far as the concept of building kayaks in aluminum, I think it is faulty from the start. People can buy indestructible plastic kayaks that bounce over rocks instead of having their aluminum hulls permanently dented, crushed or slashed open -- and they only have to pay 1/3 the advertised price of this metal boat for a much better plastic boat.

Maybe there's a niche market for these things, but if I were a whitewater kayaker I would have a plastic boat ... and if I were not a whitewater kayaker I would have a composite plywood/epoxy boat. Wait, I have 3 of these already, going on 4 ...

No matter how good the shape eventually becomes (get some clues or plans from jemwatercraft.com if you want to build really good ones using flat panels) I still don't like riding around in tin can boats. I had an aluminum jonboat decades ago and I never forgot the numerous negatives of the boat -- too cold when it's cold outside, too hot when it's hot outside, very noisy in and out of the water (I like quiet in self-propelled boats) too thin to be strong (or too thick to be lightweight), and simply not a comfortable feeling when compared with wood or even plastic.

I think metal is fine for much larger boats -- primarily large power boats-- but it's nowhere near as good a material for the typical everyday canoe or kayak. I think a similar boat made of welded PVC panels would be better myself.

 

The fact that he is doing it without being registered, that's what.

Yes you do. I don't know where you got this incorrect information Ramius41, but you are very wrong when you claim that you do not have to register to sell such boats legally in the USA.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot legally manufacture or import any recreational boats in the USA unless you are registered. You don't have to take my word for this either, it's a simple thing to look it up online if you don't believe me.

By the way, I am properly registered (MIC# XBB) and therefore I actually have a good reason to know the rules, I'm not just theorizing or repeating what someone else has told me here.

 

Oh well - Gaviota has taken his web site down - so the public are safe now.

Interesting about beng licenced to make and sell boats in the USA. I guess it would be hard to catch everyone doing it part time, but not something to advertise on the net.