Alternative to marvelous Buccaneer 24

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Gary Baigent, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    Skinny board, big mast!

    Nice :cool:
    B
     
  2. santacruz58
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    santacruz58 Senior Member

    If I may ask Gary, what do you use for the struts that you have from the hull to your beams at the shroud attachment point on sid?
    I have been looking at the latest tony grainger tris and it seems funny to me that we started out with chine type hulls because that was easy to do in plywood. That fell out of favour and we went to rounded hull shapes. Now we seem to have come full circle. The newer designs are flat on the bottom with a small radius along the chine. What is the thinking behind this? I thought that the round hull shapes had less surface area and were faster. Does the water flow better along the chined hulls negating the extra surface area?
    nelson
     
  3. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Well, I think the squared off, near chine-like after sections is an attempt towards planing, or skimming - but on the new generation of multihulls, foilers, this is unnecessary, just imo.
    At low speeds, which is the more efficient, semi-circle or flat planing surface? Ron Given was for the latter in his early Paper Tiger designs. He also continued this with his larger boats too, but rounded off the sharp edges, a tight curve really. But others designers prefer the less wetted surface area, semi-circle or ogival shape. But today, a foil boat lifts out and clear or near clear from the water.
    My struts are wetted out with epoxy inside, ply bent into an airfoil shape, then glass and carbon reinforced; carbon in the unsupported middle sections. A cheaper alternative to pure carbon, airfoil struts. The beam/float/hull connection areas are layers of carbon. Never had any trouble with the less expensive setup.
     
  4. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Superb calm Auckland morning; went out on Sid ( far left), breeze dropped to zero but boat was magical, sliding along at 2-3 knots on mirror surface amongst all the fishing boats anchored along Meola Reef - then after an hour or two, north easterly came in and Sid took off, got back before the tide went out. Just thought I'd tell you.
    That's Groucho with repainted mast across the beam, new foils too.
     

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  5. Banzai
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    Banzai Junior Member

    Gary
    are you trying to alienate our northern hemisphere friends posting images like this?

    BTW I was out a little later in the morning after the breeze got up in my little bi plane Duo480, with my wife. I am still trying to get to grips with the bi plane rig, and we are getting upwind just fine at a little under 10 knots in yesterday's breeze but off the wind it is a different story. I dont know whether it is the boomless set up or what but we cant do that great even slightly off the wind.
    By the way, i was just wondering , comparing the photo attached which as you can see we were nearing the reef, where this photo is in relation to your moorings. i just googed the harbour and found your bay with your boats, but just comparing my photo, I cant spot that square looking boatshed type building on GE.

    No real reason for asking, just curious, also to agree a great sailing day in Auckland yesterday to take advantage of the fading summer. Glad you caught it too.

    regards
    Bryan
     

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  6. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Bryan, your photograph is showing further to the east of Cox's Bay and Meola Reef; just swing around further to your right a bit. Meola is further right again.
    Google Earth has an older image (like 4 years) of Motions Creek (and the reef) with our boats moored at the mouth. Since then I've shifted because of a whinging local malcontent (who hated my boats) complaining to authorities. Cox's residents are far more friendly.
    Just guessing: with your boomless bi-plane rig not performing offwind, maybe your mains are lifting too much in the leech areas and spilling power; perhaps you need a better vanging system. I guess that means a wider track or multiple sheets. Or a boom? Two in your case.
     
  7. Tiny Turnip
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    No worries, Bryan, Summer's just kicking off here! :p

    Adrian
     

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  8. Banzai
    Joined: Aug 2014
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    Banzai Junior Member

    hi Gary, I,m with you now, its a bit hard to identify where we were from the seaward side, looking at the photo. Re the booms or lack of- yes, sadly, probably have to do something there.

    Adrian: your weather will mirror ours pretty much at a certain point where you head into summer and we exit. Happy boating

    cheers
    Bryan
     
  9. santacruz58
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    santacruz58 Senior Member

    Gary I have been looking over my photos of Sid again and was wondering how you finished the inside of Sid? Usually I put on three coats of west system on plywood or if I can flo coat it. When I lived in St Maarten in the caribean there used to be a 60 foot racing cat that was used for ferrying people over to St barts every day. The last time I was aboard I crawled down into the hulls to look at how she was built. The bulk heads looked like 9mm gaboon ply. The hull looked like the same type of ply but I dont know what thickness. What struck me as odd was it wasn't coated at all. No epoxy, paint, just bare ply. And it still looked like new after years of use. Some times I wonder if I go over board using three coats of epoxy for surfaces that are inside and not exposed to the elements. The first coat will stiffen up the ply but after that I am not so sure. High traffic areas I would definately use three coats. Just wonder what your thoughts are on this subject since you have had your boats for a long time.
    nelson
     
  10. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Interesting that the interior uncoated ply has lasted so well. But the outside would be heavily epoxy/paint sealed; maybe there was no water ingress inside the hulls to permeate inside ply surfaces. And maybe it was coated but didn't show. We have a thin and liquid coating here in NZ called ... something, can't think of the name, never used it - but people who do claim it does a very good sealing job - and the finish appearaance appears dry and uncoated. Maybe your ferry had that, or something similar.
    I do a couple layers epoxy inside and outside below waterline, one everywhere else. And often have built up areas in layers of glass and carbon too.
    Jim Young, Kiwi designer/boat builder for many years, had an argument with Epiglass in the early days of epoxy here; Jim claimed that sheathing in fibreglass was unnecessary, that it was just a con by the company to make more money ... so he never used glass sheathing on his original Vindex powerboat (and numbers of other later examples) - just a few layers of undiluted epoxy. Those early unsheathed boats are surviving today, 40/50 odd years later. But Jim used epoxy coatings, knew that was excellent stuff and he sealed both sides.
     
  11. santacruz58
    Joined: Oct 2014
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    santacruz58 Senior Member

    I believe the outside was sheathed in glass and epoxy. Had a high gloss paint like awlgrip on outside. Blue on hulls and white on deck area. I remember the hulls were empty except for a head at aft end close to rear beam. No house, just a bimini over cockpit area. Very high bridge deck clearance. I also remember it was very dry in hulls when I crawled around forward in them. I have looked for photos of this boat to show you but haven't found any yet.
    nelson
     
  12. Sparta
    Joined: Mar 2015
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    Sparta New Member

    Gary, that product you were thinking of might be Everdure?
     
  13. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Everdure, yes, thanks Sparta.
     
  14. P Flados
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    P Flados Senior Member

    Hey Gary,

    Sid looks like it was intended to be a "high performance single handed tri".

    Your descriptions of "on the water test results" have been thin to say the least.

    • Have you been able to push things to where it was either all out in decent wind, or to where you felt you needed to back off?
    • Any side by side comparisons with any kind of boat that could be used as a reference?
    • Any GPS data with a known true wind speed?

    You have had sailing conditions for the last few months while up here we have had "hypothermia in just a few minutes" water conditions.

    Come on fess up. I need a role model to point to.

    I still want to figure out an "easy tote" small single beam foiler and/or foil assist tri. I am trying to get mentally worked up to hitting the water again, and do not know how much more effort I am going to put into my current version small tri test platform.
     

  15. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Lay off me PFlados, I'm just an old bloke who enjoys sailing Sid - and haven't bothered to take any Gopro or still shots for some time either.
    In terms of pushing: Sid is very light, has a tall rig and is overpowered with full main when beating in 12 knots wind. I can't sheet the main in any tighter even standing up and using all my strength. Main backs above the hounds. Need to reef.
    The compression loads on the mast base go very high and my recent beefing up of the area started to fail (making alarming sounds) - since then I've beefed it up even more.
    To be honest i've never lined up with an equivalent and equally powerful boat so far ... but Sid is fast. Everything nearby, disappears astern. With a Bruce Number of well over 2, main and wing mast alone, you would expect this.
    So you'll just have to take my word for it.
    Come down to Auckland and take Sid out for a blast.
     
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